Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Preferred caliber?

Can't give you any "studies" except the writings of folks like Seyfried and others whose experience spans the end of the "golden era" in Africa up until now. They know and understand bullet performance.

I chose a Barnes for the example because it would give the 308 a penetration edge because a bullet of that design has less frontal area than something like a Nosler partition, therefore it will penetrate deeper, and more likely drive straighter

I must also add that most of the African hunters based their assumptions on bullets far less sophisticated than what we have available today. The 2400 or so fps was likely as fast as bullets of that era could be relied upon not to just blow the hell up, not some magic number.

Also, many here are aware of the "one-shot stop" Bullwinkle study in Sweden. Their moose are about the size of our elk, and are typically hunted at fairly close (inside 100yd) range. The study found little difference in the stopping power of a 6.5x55 and a 300win mag. Mule Deer (Barsness) has written about this on numerous occasions.

If you aren't twisting knobs and shooting long (out past 400yd) hunting with a belted magnum is like commuting in heavy traffic with a Bullit Mustang. It is cool, but you ain't really using it in any meaningful way.

Never have shot anything more than my 350 rem mag. Off the bench is not practice(i was thinking using something like a lead sled), is not what I would call practice for a hunting situation. I don't carry a table, chair and sandbags with me when I hit the mountains.

Yeah, the recoil of my 308 bothers me off "the bench". I am not going to sit here and say it doesent. Might be because of that tear in my rotator cuff and the retarded way I hold a rifle to my shoulder. Call me a girl and a weiner, I dont care.

Edit: should of said old 308, havent got a chance to shoot my newly built Rem ti yet.

Take a knee has a valid argument regarding velocity and penetration. With the right bullet, slower velocity can produce better penetration. This year, my new slooow 358 Win will be used along with my 300 Win Mag on an elk hunt in Colorado. That said, a shoulder shot where dense bone is involved (brown bear), I'll take a magnum every time and don't discount the value of terminal shock from a higher velocity projectile. Take a knee, if you look at my post, I also included a 338 Win Mag, which, with heavier bullets, is closer to the velocity of a 308 Win.

Interesting.

I've shot a variety of 308's for many years including the Kimber MT 308... none have bothered me off the bench or in the field.

Guess I'm unclear as to what your argument is... likely my fault!

Well I am confused to, i am unclear what your argument is?

While were here I might as well bring something interesting. I bought your(Brads) Winchester 70 in 300 wsm last year. This rifle has a McMillian edge stock and the recoil of this rifle is very pleasent. I can put many more rounds down it in a day then I can a Kimber in 308. Also has a lot less felt recoil than a 300 wsm I had that weighed almost 2 pounds more. Point of this is a stock makes a big difference in felt recoil and McMillians are the best at taming this I have seen. Something to think about.

Guess it only goes to show stock design is a personal thing... I can shoot a Kimber MT 308 all day at the bench in a t-shirt... not the 300 WSM I sold you! That is a great rifle, but for me nowhere near as comfortable as the Kimber 308.

My point is making an argument that practice doesn't influence field outcome isn't a good one to make.

I am not making that argument at all. If shooting off bench is a part of your practice routine thats fine, its just does not qualify as part of mine.

I have never hunted or shot in Montana, but, have spent a lot of time in the BC mountains just over the border from that state, as my "handle" would imply.

I have backpacked there and also spent some seasons alone for three months on BCFS fire lookouts and the Grizzly population in the Kootenays is now, according to the BC Fish and Wildlife, some 3500 bears with the "Flathead" being perhaps the most densely populated part of the whole region.

My feeling is that I usually carry a .338 WM crf rifle and mine weigh about 8.5 lbs, loaded with 250 NPs. I do not find this onerous to shoot in practice and just like the combo and have since I bought my first in Jan., 1968. I also packed a Browning Safari .30-06 as a lad in the Flathead, the year that those girls were killed in Montana in Glacier Park. IIRC and, with 180-200 NPs, I feel just as "Safe" as with my .338s.

I think that any good rifle from a .308Win. to a .375H&H with good bullets that one can shoot fast and accurately is just fine for the Kootenays and thus should work well in Montana....as long as a guy does not over indulge in that "Moose Drool"..........

I think I made it abundantly clear that "off the bench" is a euphemism for any sort of field practice on paper... if you can't hit paper precisely, you won't hit game precisely... recoil matters... like hell it matters.

I actually think we agree but are talking past one another.

I am a little lost and confused. This might be because I have never been to a "real" range in my entire life. A "bench" is not a field position, so why dont we just not use that term. I do not need to prove anything here, I have never missed or lost wounded game. You cant interrogate any witness's because they are in the freezer.

Agree to somewhat disagree? OK

Muy Bueno

Perro

Well, but then I don't find the 308 MT recoils much at all so apparently we're in alternate universes.

But I think, as with anyone I know, I can always agree to disagree.

Different strokes for different folks. I will happily put 40 rounds down your old 300 wsm before I put 20 down a 308 Montana. Alternate universe indeed.

I've shot thumpers before. One day I put 9 rounds of 12 gauge 3 1/2" turkey loads through a Mossberg 835 while zeroing a scope. And I've shot my Guide Gun off the bench with handloads putting a Remington 405 gr. JSP out at 1930 f.p.s. Recoil was fairly stout on that, as well.

And I've got other rifles, incl a 7mm Rem Mag.

The point was, at 54, I'm not getting any younger, and those mountains will be hard enough to climb by the time I get out to them. I was wanting a light rifle that I could hunt with that would be sufficient for deer and elk out to reasonable ranges and also be sufficient if I found myself in a predicament with griz up close. If that happens I'd prefer to back away and us both go about our business but sometimes things don't always go the way we prefer. The 308 just seemed like a good compromise in a light rifle that would get it done without getting stupid with recoil. I find that while I can deal with recoil, as I get older it becomes less fun.

If it was necessary I suppose I could move up to a 280 or 30-06 but to my thinking the 308 seemed to fit the bill pretty well. But I don't live out there and have only been hunting out West 3 times and was looking for some opinions from folks who had more experience out there and knew better than I.

I am not recoil sensitive that much. I live in Alaska and we have a grizzly or two of our own up here, I do not let the encounter of a bear dictate what caliber rifle I shoot if I am targeting another species. I will gladly hunt anything in Alaska sans coastal bears with a .308. Folks worry WAY too much about bear encounters anyways. Yes there do happen but no matter what you are carrying it will not seems large enough when you have a close encounter of the furry kind.

Now if purposely going to hunt brown bears then yes I would opt for a larger caliber as I am purposely going to try to poke a hole in one which makes them a little less than impressed about its encounter with you. That said I am going to Kodiak this fall and do not have a bear tag so I will be bringing either a .325 or .308 not the 338 or 375 I have in my safe because I am hunting goats NOT bears even though rumor has it there is a bear or two on that island

When I moose hunted on the Kenai there were fresh Brown Bear tracks around my old TNF tent in the morning... those things are friggin' ginormous! Certainly more than twice as big as our diminutive grizzlies.

Bear spray is all I carry backpacking. Here's a nice track I found on a backpack in the Madison's...

Yep there are some big bruins on the KP no matter what caliber is in your hand it won't seem large enough when that dudes close by.

375 H&H struck me as "just right" for those buggers

My hunting pal there grew up in the bush on a homestead. He used a 30-06 for everything. But he's a practical sort...

I'd go 7-08. While the 284 has always intrigued me, a trip through the 5th edition of Nosler makes me lean to the 7-08.