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Mule Deer,

I read some old posts and "Factors in Accuracy, Part II: Handloads", and you mention you have a Juenke.

As I was painstakingly loading up some 180 gr Partitions last night I got to thinking...

Did you ever spin some Nosler Partitions on your Juenke? Not a match bullet, of course. Just wondered what your thoughts were on Partition + Juenke.

v/r
Joel

I did spin quite a few Partitions on the Juenke, and in in general they were pretty good--though some were better than others. One of the very first proofs that the Juenke machine worked was when I tested what was left of a batch of 165-grain .30 caliber Partitions that had shot very well in several rifles. The machine rated them very highly.

The machine also showed that ALL bullets vary in balance, not only due to differences in manufacturing from lot to lot, but handling, especially during transportation. You may have noticed that most bullets these days are much more carefully packaged inside their boxes than they used to be, and this usually extends to shipping as well. One of the surest ways to screw up bullet balance is to mail a not entirely full box across the country!

One little extra bit of information: Nosler continuously shoots samples of bullets coming off the assembly line in an indoor range to test accuracy. If they don't shoot to their standards, they shut the line down until they find out why. Their accuracy standards for all their hunting bullets are the same. This doesn't mean that Ballistic Tips won't typically shoot more accurately than Partitions (often with less dinking around with powders and seating depth) but it does mean that Partitions will shoot quite well, if we use a little extra effort in our handloading.

One tip I was given by one of the Nosler bullet designers years agoa was to try a somewhat faster-burning powder if Partitions didn't want to shoot very well in a certain rifle. This bumps up the rear portion of the bullet, making it fit a slightly over-size bore better. It's worked for me on a number of occasions.

Thanks.

I pretty recently acquired those Partitions, and I'm about to get my rifle back from the smith with a new barrel.

It's good to keep in the back of my mind about the faster powder, as those rounds got loaded with your suggestion of 58 grains of Ramshot Hunter with magnum primers (57.5, 58, 58.5, 59 gr, to be exact). But if the rifle doesn't like those I'll try some 4350 next.

That often works. You could also try Big Game or H414/W760, which are a little faster than the 4350's.

Gale Root told me about that faster-powder trick with Partitions many years ago. He likened the open-base flaring as similar to a Mini� ball opening and perfectly sealing the bore.

It works.

Steve

An interesting, but accidental experiment is to drop a box of bullets to the floor. It will open up groups. I've never run them over a Juenke, but I'm betting lead is fluid enough to shift it's center of mass signficantly enough to put it out of balance.

While I had the machine, one of the experiments was dropping individual bullets on the floor. It didn't always screw them up, but did quite often.

I also tested a box of Hornady Interlocks that had been flattened during shipping to a local store. (Got 'em for a good price, naturally!) Some of the bullets tested far worse than any other Hornadys I ever ran over the machine, but many tested fine. The bad ones were mostly on top.

I suspect the lead core doesn't deform as much as become slightly loose in the jacket.

One other thing I learned is that if a box of bullets tested badly on the machine, there was no way to make 'em shoot. You could change seating depth, try different powders and primers, etc. etc. and all you were doing was wasting powder and primers.

Joel,
I did a quick search for "Factors in Accuracy, Part II: Handloads," but haven't waded through all the results yet. Where did you find this?

MD,
Have you tested cast bullets on the Juenke? I'm guessing they wouldn't have jacket/core loosening issues but would have more variation/surface imperfections and damage. (I suppose I should go read the the article before asking...).

This thread is a bit of an eye opener for me. I've never been specially careful w. bullet handling....

Ella

Ella,

Go to the home page of 24hourcampfire. On the left side of the page there's a list of various articles. Scroll down and you'll find "Factors in Accuracy, Part Two."

The Juenke machine measures the concentricity/thickness of jacketed bullets, by using ultra-sound to tell the difference between the jackets and the lead core. It doesn't work on monolithic bullets, whether cast lead or all-copper.

Mule Deer, some years ago after you first wrote about the Juenke machine I sent several boxes of Nos.Partitions(160gr. 7mm) off to your gunsmith friend in Texas, who run them over a Juenke then sorted and returned them to me. I used the better bullets to carefully load over a 100 rounds of 280AI stuff, making sure there was less than .003 run out. It's some vary accurate stuff, generally five shots in less than an inch. Yes, I know only a loony would do such a thing.

Thanks for the clarification, MD.

And you just pointed me at a BUNCH of new reading I can look forward to....


Ella

Well I have noticed over the last 30 or so years that Nosler Partition were shooting much better than what I saw in the past. Not that they were ever not accurate enough for big game shooting, they were. Just that loads I shot in the late 1960s just shot better now. Nice to know they take the pains to make them the best they know how to and still sell them at a price point that is affordable. These days I don't punch many holes in paper, I shoot a lot but its more off hand fun shooting, tin cans and the like. I been doing a lot of golf balls of late, with a 22. I can't afford a Juenke machine or a bore scope. 25 years ago I would have bought both, now all I am interested in is what works and just stick with that. My newest rifle, just came in yesterday, a Marlin 336 30-30 found one with out the hammer block. Has Lyman Peep sight on it. Shot it yesterday, my old eyes held 3 inches at 100 yards. I think the white tails are going to be in big trouble come fall.

super T
I cant imagine who that rifle looney was.....
I've done the same thing , using a little faster powder to make Partitions shoot better. It does work.
Charlie

Mr. Sisk, did your lawyer write your sig line?

Every word the truth however.

No, a lawyer didnt write that. If I remember right, our webmaster Rick Bin wrote that. Rick, do you remember ?
Charlie

I've an opinion that using "pulled" bullets could be a crap shoot as to if the bullet CG was shifted as a result of the removal.

For my purposes I've used a linemans pliers to pull bullets. Then discarded the bullet.

Are the Juenke machines still available?

They're hard to find now, it seems.

Vern and Arnold Juenke were neighbors of mine when I was a kid, and I had several pretty bad fights with Arnold's kid, Steve.

The machine is amazingly accurate in what it does. I wish I had gotten one back in the day, but even then it was not in the budget. Any spare money bought another gun.

My boyhood friend knows the family well. I'll call him and find out about availability.

I just got off the phone with Vern's wife. She said he doesn't make them anymore and doesn't know of any for sale presently.

Sorry...

Question for ya'll.

Does pulling bullets with a kinetic bullet puller ruin their accuracy?

It can, yes.

I called Vern's wife as well (a couple of years ago). It surprises me that someone hasn't tried to make a similar machine. Good luck finding one for sale. Clearly, there's somewhat of a demand.

Is there anything comparable out there...anyone know?