Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR 45-70 vs 45-90, -100, -110, ets

One other thing folks tend to gloss over and misread , is the "nothern herd and the southern herd"
It's very important to remember that there were meat hunters providing meat to Bozeman , Virgia City Mt, and other such places fully a decade prior to Dixon and co. getting into their little scrape in north Texas.
Fetterman and Co were wiped out at Ft. Kearney a bit before they started writing dimestore novels about some kid in Kansas shooting buffalo to feed the railroad crews.And that's about the time Cheyenne got street lights.
So to gloss past the "northern herd" as something that came after the southern herd is in fact not quite right, and what ever Sharps, Remington, Ballard etal had available from the 1860's and even into the 40's (remember they founded Salt Lake City in 1847) played a bigger part in the "hunt" than did the last two years of the Sharps co...

Well ET while the 50-140 uses a lot of powder per cartridge I've yet to see anyone take one out and shoot alot of cartridges thru one at any one time. I shot about a 110 loads in 3 days at the Quigly shoot a few years back. That's about as many as I ever went thru in a short period of time. You tend to get enuf of one fairly quick. As far as the 40-90 SBN goes,from what I have read their popularity was mainly from their flatter trajectory. I don't think the buff hunters gave a rats *ss about humane 1 shot kills in 5 seconds or 25 minutes as long as they died close the stand.We don't think like that today, it was just business to them. Magnum Man

Powder and lead were a buff hunters expense. They were cheap bastards that way. It wuzn't anything about humane, it wuz about being able to get a stand and that means not having a hit buffler take off thereby stampeding the entire pod.

I just wanna shoot a Buffler.

Gunner

They weren't cheap they were poor. During the height of the buffalo hunt the country was in a severe depression. Money was never really easy to get, and it got harder during the depression. Most of them started out with whatever gun they had and then hoped to make enough money to improove their rig. There are a number of accounts of folks using a shotgun loaded with buck and ball to kill buff.They were young and starving and didn't have anything to loose, so away they went on the big adventure.
Looking at the ledger accounts of what it cost some of those guys to outfit their rig, and then what they got back when the got the hides in.... not much profit. But they had to kill the buff to skin it so they used what ammo they had to, and if they had all ran out and bought new rifles or had their old ones refitted when the newest latest greatest thing came along, Sharps wouldn't have gone broke twice in in the 1870's.

Youz guys all gangin' up on *** You are ignoring this user *** and I can't make heads or tales of it. Didn't misspell that either.

Short cases, long chambers is silly exercise, be it from .22 RFs to .45-whatevers. Accuracy is always the victim. Like a drive-by, might as well hold the gun sideways.

There's a fella out near Gillette I hear is shooting a -110 for long range work and seems to do pretty well with it, but mortals probably wouldn't benefit from effort right off. He says he paper patches but it's near about as thin as smoke. I don't know his velocities, or for that matter what guys get with black propelled Hindenburgs. Here...see the target? Me neither...



Knew a fella once getting 1800 fps with 510 grains paper patched and RX7 in a .45-70. -kaff- Remarkably accurate too.
Was not a Sharps or roller...

Kenny shoots 1F goex express in that rifle with a 446 bullet from a Baco mould. Believe he said his velocity runs around 1320.

Reloader 7? High Wall or a #1?

-Kaff- Marlin 1895 Cowboy rifle. Watched him shoot it over a Chrony a number of times when he was working up loads and printing smallish 100 yard groups. Probably ought to have kicked like a mule but it didn't. Less bother than a little Winchester Trapper I have.

You shooting that corbin bullet w/o paper or lube? That's brave. What powder? What accuracy?

Paper patched, 50/50 beeswax/Vaseline on the patch. Why would you think otherwise? Now and then Brent, I don't have a clue where you're coming from and this would be one of those times.

As stated previously, RX7. Don't know the load he used but recall it was somewhere in the 30-something grain range. I would characterize accuracy at 100 yards as MOA'ish. Sometimes a fraction more and sometimes a bit less.

I see a bit of white patch just above the case mouth in the photo.

Gunner

Damn nice expansion DD, do you know if those are pure lead, or 20/30 to 1?

Gunner

Don't recall the alloy clearly but it did have a small portion of tin. Thinking less than 1:20 but not certain. Soft regardless. These bullets were recovered from the berm at 100 yards. Fine sandy loam slightly damp but not wet.

I've had similar experience with pure lead bullets from a paper patched .44 Mag, so there isn't much difference in hardness of the alloy.

10-roger, thank you Sir, thinkin' this PP Sharps rifles is gonna be a full on blast, i want to enjoy shooting and hunting with iron sight rifles as long as my sight holds out.

Gunner

I see no paper. You show a naked bullet and a loaded cartridge with no paper showing. It is not hard to deduce that it is at least plausible. A few have tried. Thought you might have found magic. What's so hard to understand?

I'm about to try paper patching and black in an 1893 Marlin. So, I was interested. Pretty simple...

Not plausible in my world and there is a smidge of paper showing FWIW. Luck with your 1893.

Well there ya go. I don't see paper. I see something that looks more like light shining on the ogive of the bullet. But, hey, if you say it's paper, it's paper.

FWIW there is a Shiloh #1 .45-70 for sale in the classifieds

Given that the Single shot "Rifle Musket" version appeared in 1871, and that a bucket load of "Sporters" were available in Germany that year, I'd like to toss the "43 Mauser" into this compendium of "BP Killing Machines",....

I'm reasonably comfortable venturing that NUMEROUS Western "Game Animals" were laid low during the period discussed, by that reasonably pleasant and manageable cartridge.

BIG Canadian Moose ?

NEVER recovered a bullet from my somewhat "Sporterized" '71-84', classic broadside shots being the ones I chose, there being no particular rush,at that time.The admittedly lighter .43 bullet would quite handily break a rib going in, and one on the way out, repeatedly, no fuss, no muss = DEAD Moose.

ANY properly loaded "BPCR" in the .40 caliber and above realm will kill large animals in the grazing / ungulate realm.

"D.G." is a completely different area, and there IS a reason that a LOT of old timers called out "8-Bores", and larger.

Worth thinking about.

When is somebody going to point out the false trail laid down so far about Tin, and "Bullet Hardness" here ?

Antimonials are just kinda' vaguely being hinted at, as far as I can see.

GTC