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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,059
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,059 |
Ruger isn't going to sell something incapable of handling the factory loads as marked on the frame. You've got nothing to worry about.
The SS .45 flat-top is pretty interesting to me listed at 36 ounces but I'm not sure I can get quite the velocity I want and stay within its pressure limits. Also not sure any of our clown gun dealers in the area will special order. The 36 oz ain't happenin'. Have one in each length and they come in at 2.56 and 2.59 lbs respectively. That's roughly 41 and 41.5 oz. Pete
There is nothing made by man, which cannot be broken by woman.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 13,000
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2006
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Yup, the Flattops would be great with alloy grips frames. Their steel grip frames add several ounces over the standard Blackhawks.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,482 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
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Thanks for that. Ruger's web site showed the SS flat top they're making for Lipseys at 36 oz. Here's the link: http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkDE/specSheets/5243.htmlWhat you're saying about weight and steel vs aluminum is right, I just assumed Ruger would provide accurate info about what they're shipping. I was thinking about trying to order one. I'm not interested at 41-42 ounces, not in the slightest. So .. thanks, reckon you just saved me some money and a lot of irritation. Tom
Last edited by T_O_M; 04/14/12.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,249 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,249 Likes: 14 |
I have a three screw SBH that was a .44 Rem Mag, is now a .45 Colt. It was line bored by Jim Stroh at Alpha Precision, had a Shilen 6" barrel fitted with a long steel ejector and custom front sight. I rigged a trigger stop and it's a shooter. Target at 25 yds. over a bag with 255 gr. SWC and 18.5 gr. H4227. IMHO, this is the highest and best use for a SBH .44 Mag... Third photo, Penn Bullets 270 gr. Thunderheads. Check that meplat. Bad medicine for hogs. .44 Mag can't do that... I think a stong, accurate .45 Colt will outperform a .44 Rem Mag. I know you can go with heavy .44 bullets, etc. Just saying... DF I've often wondered why the SBH was never offered from the factory in .45 Colt. It seems like it would be a perfect fit. Never thought about having one converted. It's a great idea. I presume it'll handle 30,000psi loads the same as the Blackhawk will. Pressure handling capacity should be similar, .44 and .45. Theoretically, the .44 would have a slightly thicker cylinder wall than the .45. That's why the real high pressure .45's are built with a 5 shot cylinder so the bolt or hand notch is between and not right over a chamber. If a chamber gives way, that's where it usually splits. Using H4227, it's hard to have dangerous cylinder pressure. Hank Williams Jr. is an avid Colt collector and shooter. I read where he likes 4227, even shooting 4227 loads in some of his vintage Colts. Its pressure curve, reportedly, allows max charges without dangerous pressure spikes. Pistol powders, like 2400, H110, etc. are the ones that could potentially create a pressure problem, especially if the shooter was pushing the envelope with heavy bullets. IMHO, DF
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
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Ah, the one that got away. Once upon a time, I had a beautiful stainless Bisley convertible 45 Colt/45 ACP with the 5 point something inch barrel. It had Ruger factory grey laminate grips and was a very nice shooter. I bought it for several reasons - I've always loved Rugers, I wanted the convertible so I could use up a surplus of 45 ACP handloads with an odd bullet profile that wouldn't feed right in my 1911, and it could serve as a second option for bear protection (S&W 460V is first option). I love the grip contour of the Bisley. It seems to be more recoil friendly when firing the heavy loads. I put quite a few 345 gr. cast boolits through it using "Ruger only" load data, and it was never painful to shoot. A friend needed help though, so since the Ruger had less of a practical use (At least in my mind) than did the S&W 460, it was the one to go. I'll likely replace it someday. It had a much tighter, smoother action than the Smith and just seemed built better. As to the original question - if ammo availability may influence your decision, 44 mag fodder seems much easier to find than does 45 Colt. If you hand - load though.... 6 of one, half a dozen of the other....
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,249 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,249 Likes: 14 |
Got a .45 Colt Bisley,too. Bought this one used. It was a full house custom by Jim Stroh at Alpha Precision. It won't quite group with the line bored/Shilen barreled SBH, but is no slouch. I like the way a Ruger Bisley grip feels and handles. I fitted the Sambar Stag grips and installed the Ruger medallions. DF
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,249 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,249 Likes: 14 |
Agree about handloading.
.44 Mag would be the better choice for the non-hand loader. I just assume hand loading when I wrote my posts. Hard for me to think like a non-loader. Been doing it too long.
DF
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,192
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
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Will Ruger sell you just the .45acp cylinder ? I have a SS NM Vaquero I'd like to have one fitted for. You can send it to Ruger and have a new one fitted for a reasonable price. I'd worry about just picking one up somewhere
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,610 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,610 Likes: 1 |
Will Ruger sell you just the .45acp cylinder ? I have a SS NM Vaquero I'd like to have one fitted for. You can send it to Ruger and have a new one fitted for a reasonable price. I'd worry about just picking one up somewhere In times past, Ruger would not sell a second cylinder without the gun in-house to fit it to, too much risk in the legal arena. What you are seeing at the shows are orphaned cylinders, from conversions, rebuilds, and sell-offs. I haven't sent one to Ruger lately, or know of anyone that has, but it used to be a several week process. I looked at doing it many years back with a .45 LC, but was cheaper to wait and buy one local as a factory set-up. The second cylinder with any Ruger should have a "electro-pencil" serial number matching the original gun on the forward end of the cylinder. I had several used offered to me over the years that were a mis-match, but I haven't found that with a factory/dealer direct gun. Somebosy else may have a different experience. Has anybody discussed the .45 Colt brass being potentially weaker than the the .44 mag brass? Older cartridges loaded to safe Colt SSA levels had less brass in the cartridge head/base, loading these cases to Ruger levels were a potential hazard, as same cases had a tendancy to split/seperate early in their case life. I haven't had the problem, but I have read in the reloading manuals and on-line where it happened. Most of my brass in .45 Colt is Starline, haven't had an issue with Ruger level loads from Georgia Arms.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,084
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
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Given that you are gonna load for it I would (and did) get a 45 Colt. Given you are gonna get a 45 Colt, I would (and did) get a Standard Blackhawk or BH Bisley, these can take the +P loads. (Not one of the new med. Frame BHs) My wood grips came from Hogue and they are nice� But�. Wish I had bought some fancier grips from here http://www.clccustomgrips.com/Snake
Last edited by temmi; 04/18/12.
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,700 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,700 Likes: 4 |
Has anybody discussed the .45 Colt brass being potentially weaker than the the .44 mag brass? Older cartridges loaded to safe Colt SSA levels had less brass in the cartridge head/base, loading these cases to Ruger levels were a potential hazard, as same cases had a tendancy to split/seperate early in their case life. I haven't had the problem, but I have read in the reloading manuals and on-line where it happened. Most of my brass in .45 Colt is Starline, haven't had an issue with Ruger level loads from Georgia Arms. Brass has been discussed here and elsewhere many times over. The weak brass you are referring to are the old folded "balloonhead" cases and hasn't been made in years (like the 50s). All modern brass is manufactured the same with solid heads and modern .45 Colt brass is just as strong as .44 mag. If you have Starline, you have the best top of the line pistol/revolver brass available. When you buy a box of premium +P .45 Colt thermonuclear ammo from Buffalo Bore, HSM, or Double Tap, you'll find their brass all have Starline headstamps. Winchester would be my second choice and is used by CorBon and Alaska Backpacker for their +P loads. Another issue with brass failures or short brass life in .45 Colts has been with sloppy, inconsistent chamber demensions from one gun maker to the next, with some chambers being a bit generous. Not so much an issue today as it was a few years ago. The +P .45 Colt loads running in the 28k to 30k psi range in the Hodgdon manual are specifically for the strength parameters built into the standard Blackhawk and Blackhawk Bisley.
Z
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,958 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,958 Likes: 3 |
I'd sure look to the .45 Colt vs. the .429 Magnum. In that revolver, it will take considerably more than in the SAA guns. And, it leaves a bigger hole too.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,958 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,958 Likes: 3 |
Has anybody discussed the .45 Colt brass being potentially weaker than the the .44 mag brass? No, because it's not.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 72
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 72 |
I have two old model Vaqueros both are stainless in 45 Colt. They were originally acquired for cowboy action shooting. The cylinder throats were verrrry tight so I sent them to the Cylinder Smith to be reamed. It seems that tight cylinder throats, at least in the past, were not uncommon on the old Vaquero and Blackhawk. I then had the barrel firelapped....the forcing cones were ok. One front sight had to be persuaded to lean a bit more to the left. The front sight on the other was filed down a bit. Though not match level paper punchers, even with the Vaqueros fixed sights they are accurate enough to be fun to shoot. Both pistols are now "carry to the woods" guns. I put a Hogue Monogrip on both guns....they are not as pretty as the wood grips but are much more manageable when shooting heavy loads. They are a handful with Buffalo Bore level loads and very pleasant to plink with using Cowboy loads.
Live so that it matters that you have lived at all....
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Got this .45 Colt Bisley (5 1/2-inch barrel) recently and aside from the somewhat heavy trigger pull, it has proven accurate and a pleasure to tote in the field. I much prefer the .45 Colt to the .429 Magnum.
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