Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 4 DG rifles "hybrid" CRF?

Went to check out the new Win M70. Totally uninspiring.
However, the Sako was magnificent, though.
Can't wait to get my hands on the McMillan Prestige & Mauser M 03,I can only imagine how slick they will be compared to these Wally world Wins & Rems I see around town.

I think you'd better listen carefully to what Utah7/08 and Colorado have to say.It is pretty apparent to me that you don't know much about DG rifles, if you are running around town declaring Sako's as "magnificent" and M70's as "uninspiring".Especially considering one of the top makers of DG rifles in the country today builds them on M 70 actions;not Sakos.Another use many Mausers 98 styles.

You should also pay attention to what guys like Phil Shoemaker,John Barsness (on here), and Don Heath have to say about DG rifles ,and what they actually use,because these guys deal with this stuff all the time and have shot lots of dangerous animals.

Comparisons made in a sporting goods store are worthless....the reason is simple.No matter how "inspired" you are in the store,if a rifle does not function perfectly,every single time, you could get killed.

Beyond any shadow of a doubt I'd not go with any of your options. I would build!

M70 CRF action

One of D'Arcy's Legend handles

Barrel that would mic .65" when cut to 23" (tons of good barrels to choose from)

Talley

Optics=1-5 Leo or 6x36 Leo w/dotz


I'd buy a bunch of bullets, shoot a minimum of 500 rounds a year thru it. I'd hunt yotes, deer, and tweety's as much as I could with it and then get to filling arks.

This stuff is only rocket science if we choose to make it so.

Dober

For some of us, building a rifle is more advanced than we want to go (although some campfire loonies make it seem like something they do most days before breakfast.) But your blueprint is certainly a sound one, Mark.

I can absolutely see the attraction to Sakos; they are well made rifles with a nice feel. The scope mounting system is sound. The trigger is more complex than I might like on a DG gun. I can't remember if a Sako safety blocks the pin, or merely the trigger.

I still think the key is that no gun is truly ready to go as a DG gun just as it comes from the factory. They all need tweaking, bedding inspected/redone, feed & function testing, cycling/polishing of bolt raceways and feed ramp, trigger tuning/safety timing, perhaps a different pad/LOP, scope base screws re-threaded to 8-40, open sights decided upon, and probably some things that aren't occurred to me just now. Then it is ready to rely upon.

I have a Brown Precision Elite Hunter in .375 H&H, built on a LH Rem 700 action. It predates the era when Lh M70s were available. Even though the 700 is not super high on the list of preferred DG actions, this gun is durn near flawless because of the attention to all these details. List price on such a gun today would be around $5k, and I would gladly take it on a brown bear hunt.

In the end, I think I will go with what a real "PRO" knows and not campfire "legends" , read his email to me;
"The CRF vs PF is strictly a matter of personal opinion. The majority of rifles used to take dangerous game are push feed. That is because the majority of the rifles made today are push feed. Our actions are smooth and dependable wherther CE+RF or PF so I all just depends on what you want. Then there is another choice as well. Three position safety as opposed to trigger safety. You can have either regardless of whether you choose PF or CRF. Some like the simplicity of off and and on, along with the ease of setting the safety with your thumb while in firing position. It�s a little farther reach for the 3PS. 3PS advantage is locking the bolt closed in the 3rd position. With either safety you can work the bolt with the safety on which allows you to remove a chambered round while the safety is one.

I am going to Mozambique in October for Cape Buffalo and I am taking a Prestige with 3PD and CRF in .404 Jeffrey. I just happened to build this rifle in the �traditional African Dangerous Game style because it is a traditional ADG cartridge. I would be just as comfortable using a Heritage in .416 Rem with PF and trigger safety."

Kelly D. McMillan
Director of Operations
McMillan Group International, LLC
623-582-9635
1638 W Knudsen Dr
Phoenix, Arizona 85027
McMillan Integrity-Global Vision
www.mcmillanusa.com

Become a fan of McMillan on facebook
http://www.facebook.com/McMillanGroupInternational

You used to be bullets4yogi, right?

No, what are you talking about???

So you're going to listen to the opinion of a sales person who is trying to sell you his product, over the voice of unbiased experience of several guys who have been there and done that, and are NOT trying to sell you anything?

I hate to say this, but one phrase comes to mind: A fool and his money are soon parted...

The reason why the CZ 550/Brno 602 has tended to be more popular amongst professional hunters vs the M70 largely comes down to a a very small issue - the Winchester 3 position safety. I know it is one of THE most lauded attributes of the M70 back home, but it may not be the best safety for a DGR and it is actually not particularly popular outside of north america. The variation on the Ruger is worse.

IMO (and the opinion of a lot of folks who have done a lot more DG hunting than myself) on a DGR a simple push forward two position safety is more desireable.

It is a very small issue, but it is THE most frequently given reason for favouring other mauser-type actions over the M70.

Just buy a Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger and have the action blueprinted and trigger tuned.

Otherwise just go up the scale and get a CZ Safari Classic special with a broughton barrel in something like a 404 Jeffery.

I like my Whitworth Express 458. You can still find them and they are pretty nice. They form the basis for Old Ugly from Phil.

Sincerely,
Thomas

I am sure the McMillan is a magnificent rifle, but it is simply beyond my price range. The functional difference between CRF and PF is probably over done, certainly with the 375 H&H which is an easy case to feed and extract. I would rather a bolt blocking safety.

I would want a bolt that could be field stripped without tools. I would want an extractor that could be changed out in the field without tools. Avoiding a box style trigger would be nice, as they can get both African sand and Alaskan ice in them, and it would be doubly good if the trigger could be replaced in the field. And of course one needs to have these spare parts in your kit, or the ability to change them out does no good.

Brand preference comes down to affordability, comfort, and familiarity. Competency comes through use. My major hunting rifles (7 RM, 30-06, 338 Win, 375 H&H, and 416 Rem) are all on Lh M70s, so it is easy enough for me to transition from one to the other. Time spent with one helps create muscle memory that is transferable to the others.

I wish you all the best with this rifle.

I thought the same thing.

When I see large numbers of African and Alaskan pro's lugging McMillan and Sako rifles to bet their lives on, I'll think about other brands. Until then,it'll be older M70's and Mausers.CRF was "invented" by Paul Mauser and the hard fact is no one has really improved on it since then in a manually operated bolt gun.

In all liklihood a guy will have no problem with something else,but I will hedge bets based on decades of use and the majority opinion.....if you end up with an empty chamber because you short stroked under stress,or some trick extractor jumped the rim of a fired case,you could have a problem.

Folks are entitled to their own views based on cruising catelogs...I'll go with what works based on long history and the expeiences of guys who see this stuff day in and day out over decades of experience.

JMHO.Wish the OP good luck in his choice.

My thoughts exactly. I've read enough to not waste any more time on this post.

Doubt this is Phil's grizz rifle, but he does use a PF in Alaska so I'd think that there are some PF, boxed trigger designs that work up there.

Sig,

There were some real Pro's who gave you advice. What you do with it is your choice. I ain't a Pro, but my choice would be a reliable Model 70 first, followed by a Whitworth 375. By the way. I hunted Grizzly the first time with a Remington push feed in 300 Weatherby. The next time with a Weatherby, 300 Weatherby and the last 2 times with a Model 70 Classic in 338 WM. I killed Grizzlies 3 out of the 4 times I've hunted them and none of those rifles let me down.

I think the most important factor in a DG rifle is the guy who squeezes the trigger. If your going to a "gun store" for advice, or seeking the advice of someone who sells guns, me thinks you need more experience.

Kelly McMillian is a fine honorable man, his son and partner, is a Navy SEAL, having served the las 7 yrs.
He is also a big game & DG hunter and goes to Africa more often than you dream about it!
He is NOT trying to sell me anything, In fact, for his Prestige model DGR, he DOES us a CRF, but also makes a PF for other models they make and like many others, who have taken scores of Grizzly, Brown and African Big 5 with a PF have said...IT DOES NOT MATTER, it is just "romantic tradition", both can JAM, short strock, break etc. Wise up.

Don't know what that 1st link is but it is not me.