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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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So Scott, if you happened to use a tester on the RIA and a Ruger 1911 side by side, and the RIA was harder, by Bristletop's criteria that would mean the RIA was "better" than the Ruger, no?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Does anyone know where I can get the frame of my Glock Rockwell tested? It seems soft, so maybe it's junk? Should I trade it for a Llama .45???? 
Last edited by John_Boy; 05/19/12.
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father but by me. John 14:6
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Does anyone know where I can get the frame of my Glock Rockwell tested? It seems soft, so maybe it's junk? Should I trade it for a Llama .45???? B Top say Llamm es muy excellente. Much harder than Glock or Colt.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Hardness only tells part of the story, related to metallurgical quality. If the steel has impurities, or was overheated in hardening, the hardness can read good, but the durability of the part can be suspect.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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So Scott, if you happened to use a tester on the RIA and a Ruger 1911 side by side, and the RIA was harder, by Bristletop's criteria that would mean the RIA was "better" than the Ruger, no? Maybe, maybe not. Hard enough or to hard are different things. To hard bakes steel brittle. I think a 1911 hardened to the upper 60s would shatter. To soft and it will beat itself to death. There is a midpoint that blends hardness and elasticity to an optimum point. I got this in a PM from and informed member. Slide - RC40-46 (5 test points), 4140 or 8650 steel, austenitic grain size 5 or smaller. An additional mid rail test point has a spec of RC32-46, but that seems to be irrelevant in view of the other 5 test points. The critical small parts have varying specs in the 48-52 ballpark.
The frame hardness doesn't matter much as shown by the common use of lightweight alloys. The numbers vary with RC30-35 being the most common with steel frames. Preventing frame wear is more about fit than hardness. Indicates that the low forties is about right and right where my slide lays. But when you heat a heat treated steel above it's critical point, somewhere around 1750 for most steels, then allow it to cool then all bets are off. That is what happens when you weld on a piece of steel. If I were going to weld on a piece of heat treated steel and want that steel to stay hard I would send it off to a heat treater and have it uniformly brought back up to it's critical temperature and then properly quenched and then drawn back to it's desired hardness. To weld on a heat treated piece of metal then blame the original manufacture because I did something to make it seem soft is ludicrous! After pointing this out Mr Bricktop seems to want to change the subject and just curse us into his line of unfounded reasoning. The "they are just bad because I say so and besides they are no good for anything" argument does not hold water with anyone who looks at the real stated facts. I with just my AA degree and a lot of self study can see that. I wonder why Mr Bricktop who is obviously far better educated and much smarter cannot.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Mr. Bricktop is a big talker.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Mr. Bricktop is a big talker. I do believe he does not read and think about what others say. I know I am not always right. My wife informs me of that fact from time to time so that I cannot forget. I can read an opinion someone has written, examine my opinion vs theirs and decide what I should believe. I have learned a lot in 11 years here and many have changed my opinions and and habits. I guess not everyone has or wants that ability. Mr Bricktop made a statement about RIA 1911s. Then he demanded we provide proof he was right. When he told the whole store and it came out that one person who had altered the heat treat of a 1911 and then thought it might be soft he just resorted to profanity and insults to make his point. He can go on thinking and believing in his own little world. He can spew forth all sorts of filth. As long as you all don't quote him I will not see it.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Chapter 3: When losing an argument become as profane as possible, this will....scare off others who don't like profanity. Profanity doesn't scare me. It disappoints me.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So Scott, if you happened to use a tester on the RIA and a Ruger 1911 side by side, and the RIA was harder, by Bristletop's criteria that would mean the RIA was "better" than the Ruger, no? Maybe, maybe not. Hard enough or to hard are different things. To hard bakes steel brittle. I think a 1911 hardened to the upper 60s would shatter. To soft and it will beat itself to death. There is a midpoint that blends hardness and elasticity to an optimum point. I got this in a PM from and informed member. Slide - RC40-46 (5 test points), 4140 or 8650 steel, austenitic grain size 5 or smaller. An additional mid rail test point has a spec of RC32-46, but that seems to be irrelevant in view of the other 5 test points. The critical small parts have varying specs in the 48-52 ballpark.
The frame hardness doesn't matter much as shown by the common use of lightweight alloys. The numbers vary with RC30-35 being the most common with steel frames. Preventing frame wear is more about fit than hardness. Indicates that the low forties is about right and right where my slide lays. But when you heat a heat treated steel above it's critical point, somewhere around 1750 for most steels, then allow it to cool then all bets are off. That is what happens when you weld on a piece of steel. If I were going to weld on a piece of heat treated steel and want that steel to stay hard I would send it off to a heat treater and have it uniformly brought back up to it's critical temperature and then properly quenched and then drawn back to it's desired hardness. To weld on a heat treated piece of metal then blame the original manufacture because I did something to make it seem soft is ludicrous! After pointing this out Mr Bricktop seems to want to change the subject and just curse us into his line of unfounded reasoning. The "they are just bad because I say so and besides they are no good for anything" argument does not hold water with anyone who looks at the real stated facts. I with just my AA degree and a lot of self study can see that. I wonder why Mr Bricktop who is obviously far better educated and much smarter cannot. All of the above is exactly correct, IME. And my day job for the past 25 years or so has been mostly high strength metals.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Darned if I didn't get one right.  My job was to take pieces of steel of various kinds then cut away part of it until I found the piece that was in my blueprint. I did get to spent time in a small lab guessing why a piece failed or why it didn't when it was supposed to fail. I had no formal training only one book on the subject. I had a cold saw, one used for sectioning bones, a Bakelite press, polishing wheels, acid for etching, microscope and a micro hardness tester. I am proud to say in three years of guessing I never guessed wrong. 
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Bueno then Ethan, it's a Llama por me!!!  Muchas gratias por la helpful insight......
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father but by me. John 14:6
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Anyone seen Bricktop?????
Bricktop!!
Bricktop!!!
You still out there????
Kinda like using one of those new high volume commodes---he sure disappeared quickly.
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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BT MIA...that's a GOOD thing!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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BT MIA...that's a GOOD thing! Agreed. That guy(BT) sure is abrasive. 
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Campfire Member
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So Scott, if you happened to use a tester on the RIA and a Ruger 1911 side by side, and the RIA was harder, by Bristletop's criteria that would mean the RIA was "better" than the Ruger, no? Maybe, maybe not. Hard enough or to hard are different things. To hard bakes steel brittle. I think a 1911 hardened to the upper 60s would shatter. To soft and it will beat itself to death. There is a midpoint that blends hardness and elasticity to an optimum point. I got this in a PM from and informed member. Slide - RC40-46 (5 test points), 4140 or 8650 steel, austenitic grain size 5 or smaller. An additional mid rail test point has a spec of RC32-46, but that seems to be irrelevant in view of the other 5 test points. The critical small parts have varying specs in the 48-52 ballpark.
The frame hardness doesn't matter much as shown by the common use of lightweight alloys. The numbers vary with RC30-35 being the most common with steel frames. Preventing frame wear is more about fit than hardness. Indicates that the low forties is about right and right where my slide lays. But when you heat a heat treated steel above it's critical point, somewhere around 1750 for most steels, then allow it to cool then all bets are off. That is what happens when you weld on a piece of steel. If I were going to weld on a piece of heat treated steel and want that steel to stay hard I would send it off to a heat treater and have it uniformly brought back up to it's critical temperature and then properly quenched and then drawn back to it's desired hardness. To weld on a heat treated piece of metal then blame the original manufacture because I did something to make it seem soft is ludicrous! After pointing this out Mr Bricktop seems to want to change the subject and just curse us into his line of unfounded reasoning. The "they are just bad because I say so and besides they are no good for anything" argument does not hold water with anyone who looks at the real stated facts. I with just my AA degree and a lot of self study can see that. I wonder why Mr Bricktop who is obviously far better educated and much smarter cannot. Thank you so much for this very cogent material that actually quantifies the issues at hand. I would gladly hang my hat on your observations, experience, and common sense any day. Thank you and shoot safe
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Campfire Regular
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BT MIA...that's a GOOD thing! ....I'm sure that he'll resurface.....all kinds of things float. :-) You know, it's ashame because he really does know his stuff in some areas and can contribute in a worthwhile manner at times. He'd be a good case study in the "heredity vs environment" debate.
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 39,301 |
Thank you so much for this very cogent material that actually quantifies the issues at hand. I would gladly hang my hat on your observations, experience, and common sense any day. Thank you and shoot safe
The above coming from a man of your experience with 1911s it a treasured complement. Thank you Sir.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,335
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have had one of the standard 'tactical' guns, and one of the compact 'officer' guns. The officer was all steel and so darned heavy, when I wore it naturally wanted to walk in a circle, I traded it. Both took maybe 150 rounds I guess for everything to really settle in, but they were bothe very nice, very accurate guns.
At first, each one would malfunction once per mag, thena bout 3rd mag...5th mag...etc. Yes, I did clean them first, but like I say, they sort of had to 'settle in.'
I would really-really like to have another in 38 super. Why? beats me...but I do!
Last edited by iambrb; 05/21/12.
Psalm 19:14-May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer.
_
Humble servant of Jesus Christ. Living His plan and praying to show it in name, word, body, and light.
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BT MIA...that's a GOOD thing! BT free = BS free....YEA
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Psalm 19:14-May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer.
_
Humble servant of Jesus Christ. Living His plan and praying to show it in name, word, body, and light.
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