Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Bullet alloys and long range accuracy tests?

I've read several times that wheelweights aren't good for bpcr because they don't give good long range accuracy. Has anybody here ever tested that theory , or is it just something that someone came up with and ever since all have said "Yup that's right?"

Wheel weights are not very consistant, in their ingredients, or quality for casting purposes. At least not the ones I find in Southern California.

What I have used for casting in cartridge guns, rifle and pistol, is a mixture I call 6 and 2. Six percent Antimony and 2 percent tin. I have had good results across the board from pistols to various rifles.

The secret to me, other than having the right bullet for the application, is to have the bullet sized right (.100 - .200), over groove diameter.

Then you have to putter around and test different lubes, to see which one your rifle likes.

Bill

R13,
FWIW, WW's are all I use & I shoot at 1000 & beyond a lot- good enough for 15 medals (2 Gold) in the Nationals this year. I get them from a Co-Op Ranch store down the street- mostly off American built trucks (big ones). ...Dennis

Pathfinder thanks for the info. I use wheelweights as well, I do have some 20-1 that I've cast some bullets up with, but have not had a chance to shoot any yet.
This alloy question is just something that got to bugging me after I cast the first batch of 20-1, they weigh 505 grs , just like the ww's do. So I'm having trouble in my pea brain figuring out how if bullets from both alloys weigh the same from the same mold pan lubed and sized in the same size die, why would one shoot better at long range than the other? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Ranch; I know a guy in St Maries who is a consistent BPCR medal winner. All he shoots is wheelweights. Matter of fact, he was the one who got me started in the sport. I, too only shot WW for a long time but noted there was always a 'flake-off' (soldering?) in the barrel. Not difficult to clean, and at worst took a pass with a bronze wool wad to remove. Since, I have gone to known blends. Do not know if the end justifies the means and probably NEVER will!
Curious point, re: the WW supply I have had on hand for years now... Lead Hardness Tester indicated EXACT SAME hardness with my WW metal and known 20:1 lead.
That indicates to me that there is some fact in what I have read: "anything you add to lead makes it more like solder... the more you add the more it wants to solder the barrel.." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I've never added anything to ww's except an occasional pound of pure lead. I usually flux with paraffin or beeswax 2 or 3 times in one 10lb pot full, and skim all the scum and shiny stuff off the top.
What size groups do you guys get on paper at 500 yds and further?
If the wind will stay down and the snow stops thinking of doing some long range group shooting. Would like to get that done before the cows get home and the range gets plugged up for a few months.

Ranch,
I was shooting 1000 yesterday- wind was blowing 15-20 @ 8:00-10:00 & I had a 5 rd. group go 16"H X 32"W. Was using a wrist rest and blow tubing. not great, but would stay in the 9 ring. I do get the occasinal Moa group (X-ring) with better conditions.
I would suggest a heavier bullet in the 550-600 gr. range doing 1300 fps. (requires a set out bullet like the NASA II or LZ II in a .45-70). Good shootin! ..Dennis

Ranch,

good question! Just what is the deal with wheel weights? Very good question!!

The lead alloy we as BPCR shooters choose to use needs to make a few criteria. it needs to be soft enough to obturate and fill the rifling, it needs to be tough enough to stay together on the flight to the target, it needs to be tough enough in "Silhouette" to be able to take the target down with out spending all of its energy in vaporizing, ( This can and is a real problem for those folks shooting those mouse mauler calibers ) and it needs to be castable and consistant in weight.

Wheel weights for the most part are "Somewhat " harder than a known alloy of 20-1 -- 30-1 or such as that. There is no standared for wheel weights today as almost all wheel weights are made off shore. China could care less what they put into wheel weights becuase for there intended purpose as wheel weights they only need to be heavy and easy to make.

I last year did a little comparision of what exactly is in wheel weights. i casted severeal batches of wheel weights made a sample of each batch and sent them down to Bakersfield to a Metelurgy lab just to see. They contained some damn nasty stuff, while I do not have the report here with me at the present time some of the components where Cyanide, Arsnic, Chrome, Zinz, Antimony, Sulpher and about a dozen other componjents to some degree. some of these components where present only in trace amounts but they where there none the less.

Also in the batches I cast there was a wide difference in the hardness from one batch to another. Wheel weights need to be casted at a little bit different temp as well to get a good bullet. And becuase of the Antimony ( this is the one ingredant that we BPCR shooters never need) the bullets cast from wheel weights "Do In Deed" Age harden over a two week or so period. As they age harden they also change there size to a very small degree.

So knowing the above should we "NOT" use wheel weights? One of my favorite bullets a Brooks modified creedmoor of my own design shoots the best when cast from wheel weights. Almost any mould I have will cast a good wheel weight bullet, and lastly i have won many matches shooting wheel weights even though I prefer 30 to 1 alloy. Now with that said there are some things we all need to do to cast wheel weights "I THINK" Good ventalation is a must with wheel weights , a must!! It is also best to cast as large amount of the wheel weights and keep the batches seperate so that you are casting for any one match with wheel weight alloy that is all the same. I cast the raw wheel weights into batches of 100 lbs. What ever is left out of that 100 lbs is included into the next 100 lb batch. And the one thing I feel is most important with wheel weights becuase of the Antimony is cast for a match or matches in as short of a time as possible before that match. I cast the day before.

Other than using a little common sense wheel weights will work OK. A known alloy is much better only in the fact that it is indeed a "KNOWN" and thus removes a variable from your loading.

Gunny

Pathfinder I had this big notion this morning I'ld do a little long range group shooting as soon as it warmed up, well 16 was as good as it got and it snowed a nice powder type snow, would be great for skiing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Gunny sounds like those Chinamen are using recycled batterries for wheel weights. I tried gleaning lead from batterries many moons ago for "easy" roundball lead, short story it didn't work as planned.
When I cast wheel weight bullets for smokeless I just pour em like they come from the pot. Don't like anitmony in smokeless , think it causes more problems than it helps. When I'm pouring for the bp cartridge loads I usually add a pound or so of "pure" lead to keep them a bit on the soft side. My left thumbnail hardness tester indicates that concotion scratches as easily and deeply as 20-1.
I do have a couple of 100 lb ingots of lead weight that was used for balance ballast in a B29 bomber, been thinking of trying some of that as well. But may just hang on to it. Seems the biggest problem of getting wheelweights is beating other bullet casters to the coop.
Will see how the testing goes provided I can get a decent day for it. But what I'm leaning towards at the moment is if the accuracy difference is nill I'll probably use 20-1 for match bullets and the ww's and other scrounged sources for practice and smokeless stuff.

From what I personally know and/or have read or heard before, GUNNY is pretty much "on the money".

Ranch: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> can't honestly quote exact sizes at longer ranges but can say 'respectible' and 'definately competative' (how's that?) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well Jo taking into account yours and pathfinders accounts , I suppose if I get the range on the old bathtub and then move the sights on a 6ft square of carboard , might be with a little luck I can put at least one bullet hole in it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />