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I'm looking for info on shooting cast bullets in big bores.

I'm building a .404 J. and would like to know what cast bullets to use. I did cast my own bullets in my youth, but don't want to go there, now. I need sources of good quality, probably gas checked, bullets to try.

I also have several 45-70's, always using jacketed bullets.

It may be time to venture back into the cast bullet world.

DF

I went to LBT for my 450-400 moulds. My gun has a 410 bore and I had tried a Redding/Saeco 740 that was supposed to cast up to 412-413, it wouldn't. I asked Veral for two moulds that would go .412-4125 with wheelweights, that is what I got. He made them to use Gator 416 gas checks, they work beautifully.

I have posted these pics before in various places but this is from the mould I had Hoch make for me. It is to my own desigh and can be loaded to the same OAL as the 400gn Woodleigh bullet.I wanted accuracy and velocity and this bullet certainly delivers this aplenty. 350gn nominal and uses the Hornady 44 cal GC


Run it at 1900fps with 63gn ADI2209 - H4350 shooting at 55 yds with aperture sights. 3 shots


Run it over 2400+ fps with 87gn ADI 2209 - H4350 at 55 yds - 5 shots.


It is the lubed and GC sample in the middle of this line-up


Hoch Moulds ID is C6610 423 345 made 5-15-08
I have run it at 1400fps over 20.5gn Red Dot and taken plenty of goats with it as well

Von Gruff.

That's what I want, just don't want to get back into the bullet casting business.

Who sells those, or similar?

DF

DF, got to Beartooth bullets .com Marshall is a good dude and will sell ya all ya want.

He also includes a nice copy of the New Testament with each order.

Gunner

gunner,

They have 380 gr. SP's with gas check, $22 per 50.

It's been so long since I've cast, sized and lubed cast bullets I'm having to review.

I'm not sure how fast one could push a gas checked cast bullet in a gun like the .404 J.



VonGruff,

Do you have other load data for lead bullets in the .404J? It's a really big case to be shooting light loads and I'm not sure how much I want to get into fiber wads and fill, etc.

Need more info on good combos for a 380 gr. Beartooth bullet in this big case. Beartooth didn't have any .404 J. load data.

DF

I ran 400gr cast bullets in my 450/400 3" NE using Hodgdon's Trail Boss powder. No fillers or anything; recoil was negligible and accuracy at 50 yards was pretty good. The load, which I worked up following the instructions on Hodgdon's website, hit the same POA as my 400gr Woodleigh load, which was 70gr of H831sc. I shot alot more of that Trail Boss load than I did of the Woodleighs.

Here's a post I put up a few years ago when I was working with my 450/400 3" NE and Trail Boss. Don't own that rifle anymore, but if I ever have another one, it'll be fed these loads more often than not.

"Finally got to the range today to test out my new Ruger #1 in 450/400. Since I haven't installed a decelerator pad yet, I decided to use light loads: 30gr of Hogdon Trail Boss under a 400gr cast bullet. I am using the Montana custom swaged bullets sold by Cabelas, which are sized .408 so they are slightly underbore for my rifle.

The good: This load hit right where the factory sights were set at 50 yards, the second half of my box of 20 reloads was into the black and could be covered with my hand, not bad for off-hand with the factory iron sights. Practice will make it better.

The ugly: The first three rounds key-holed all over the target.

My first thought was: undersized bullets. But, after the first seven or so shots the gun seemed to calm down and the rest of the rounds went right to point of aim and hit the target true. These were the first rounds through this rifle outside the factory so perhaps the barrel just needed seasoning?

Recoil was there, but not bad at all. The Ruger isn't a light rifle by any means and I found the kick to be much like 20ga target loads out of my Ithaca M37.

One thing that is very noticeable with the long 3" case is that the Ruger's safety needs to be trimmed back a few thousanths of an inch to allow fired brass to clear. As it stands with the gun set to eject, the fired case hits the safety and lands back in the loading trough. Not a problem at the range, but would be in the field.

All in all I look forward to continuing to work with Trail Boss in the 450/400. If you've got a big case'd round hanging about, try this powder. Sherman Bell has an extensive article in the newest Double Gun and Single Shot Journal detailing his work with this powder in a number of classic English rounds, and it is well worth reading. My 30gr load was not compressed at all, and the powder could be heard rattling in the case. Nonetheless there were no unfired powder kernels left in the barrel; I was using Winchester Large Magnum primers. My next step is to try .409 and .410 cast bullets to see how well they perform before standardizing on a single load.

Oh, and the looks you get from AR shooters at the range when you are thumbing in 3" cases are absolutely priceless."

Thanks for that info. It makes sense, as Trail Boss was made for low pressure loads.

I'm a cowboy action shooter and tried Trail Boss in my .45 Colt. I didn't like it, as it was dirty, leaving partially burned little donuts in the residue.

Maybe, in a big case, where it can burn hot enough and with enough pressure, it will function without all the residue.

I'll get some and give it a whirl.

DF

I've had unburned kernels in my 45 Colt loads as well; backing off half a grain solved that, as did using hotter primers (Winchester Large Pistol). Bell's article is a must read if you're going to work up loads for your 404J. His conclusions, which were derived from working up loads with a strain gauge setup, were pretty interesting, though I'd have to dig out that issue of DGJ to summarize them accurately.

DF, you can push those gas check 380's to 2000 fps if ya need to, and I assume your having a custom built, so it will likely have a match grade barrel.

A Bud of mine runs 525 gn hard cast gas checks to 2250 in a long barreled 50-110 WCF, and I have never heard him speak of leading issues, and the accuracy of his rifle wouldn't lead one to suspect leading problems either.

Gunner

As noted I have got my 350's away at over 2400fps with 87gn H4350 but had HT the alloy to do so. Found that I got 2365fps with 74gn Varget for same accuracy and great for recoil recovery practice. 63 gn of H4350 for 1900fps is a nice shooting load and super accurate in my rifle.
I worked loads that didn't require filler.
The Red Dot load of 20.5 gn does not need any filler as the powder is not position sensative. I have loaded and shot hundreds of rounds with complete satisfaction. (I have a .13 spacer that I use to set my FLS die up in the press so am only partially FLS my brass and have never fully FLS my cases for the cast loads.) Clean burning, accurate enough for plinking and goats out to fifty yards of so.

Von Gruff.

Gunner and VG,

Good info and thanks.

DF

Gunner,

Am looking to get a Walther SS .404 J. barrel.

It should be pretty slick.

DF

As glass my friend.

Gunner

I'll push the 380 gas checks with Trail Boss just to see what it will do and for practice on shooting sticks.

I may look at H4895, as it's a great reduced load powder in other rounds, as recommended by Hodgdon. It seems to be quite forgiving.

The 380's at 1,800-2,000 fps should be interesting, about like a lively .45-70 load.

I'll work up some full house, big boomer loads, but doubt I'll be shooting them as much...

DF


Edited to add photo of donor M-70 .300 RUM. Cost me $700 as is. I think I can sell the Nikon Buckmark 3-9x40, rings, bases, take off stock and eventually the take off SS bbl. From the looks of the gun, I would bet that barrel is in great shape. I'll be SURE to not shoot that thing...

Yessir, those 380's will easily shoot through anything this side of Ele, and wouldnt surprise me if they wouldnt penetrate the honeycomb skull of a bull ele.

The hardcast lead bullets will surely provide a cost effective way to get in lots of practice.

But for pure hunting loads the Barnes TSX and Banded solids are unbeatable, and will be around 4 gns difference in there powder charges, with the higher charge going oddly enough for the solid.

If decide to go with them, you may want to load up a solid in a dummy round and have your Smith make sure your new rifle will feed it.

Gunner

I'm ordering brass, bullets and dies tomorrow.

You're saying I need to get solids to make dummies to check feed?

And you would go with Barnes banded solids over Woodleigh, or others?

DF

Yes, Dont shoot it, I had two donors, shot them both, now have two donors and two semi-customs

Yessir get a solid dummy round sent off to your Smith, the Barnes banded solids have a semi-flat nose profile, easy to make them feed, but it does have to be addressed.

The Woodleigh's are good solids, and a good bullet overall, and have done it all for decades now.

But IMHO, and in my own bullet testing, the Barnes Banded solid has no peer.

Gunner

Gunner,

I'll add Barnes solids to my order. My smith needs dummy rounds and I'll load him several with those bullets.

Thanks, your timing was perfect.

DF