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Joined: Aug 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Personally, I do not see how a mine of this magnitude could be a safe bet. There's too much at stake and the risks are to high.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 128
Campfire Member
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Carefully read and research what you read. About 50% of it is BS from both sides. I've hunted/fished that area for 40+ years. I have camped where the dam is to be located. It is not the "headwaters" of Bristol Bay. It is a small creek that runs into the Kaktulik river which runs into the Mulchatna. The Mulchatna runs into Bristol Bay. It is only one of several rivers that dumps into Bristol Bay. If the mine kills that river, it will have a small effect on Salmon in Bristol Bay.
Most of the negative publicity comes from a Millionaire who has a Fish Lodge near by. He of course wants the area to accessible only by his expensive float planes.
Some of the locals do not want the mine because they will lose their guvment tit. They may have to go to work.
Nondalton and Illiamna are the closest villages to the mine. There are no jobs there except guvment jobs. None. The people who would like to have a job are in favor of the mine.
I'm neither for nor against the mine, yet. However I will say this, Watch the Money! If the mine Co. crosses the correct palm with money (politicians), the mine will be. If not, it will fail.
If it boils down to the salmon or the money, money wins.
Side note...The Fed. EPA is investigating the mine. Their first public meeting was in SEATTLE! Guess where most of the commercial fishermen who oppose the mine are from? Yep, not Alaska.
My advise, for what it is worth, before you make up your mind,follow the money.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Looks like someone won the 'google me Elmo' door prize. 
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
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Carefully read and research what you read. About 50% of it is BS from both sides. I've hunted/fished that area for 40+ years. I have camped where the dam is to be located. It is not the "headwaters" of Bristol Bay. It is a small creek that runs into the Kaktulik river which runs into the Mulchatna. The Mulchatna runs into Bristol Bay. It is only one of several rivers that dumps into Bristol Bay. If the mine kills that river, it will have a small effect on Salmon in Bristol Bay.
Most of the negative publicity comes from a Millionaire who has a Fish Lodge near by. He of course wants the area to accessible only by his expensive float planes.
Some of the locals do not want the mine because they will lose their guvment tit. They may have to go to work.
Nondalton and Illiamna are the closest villages to the mine. There are no jobs there except guvment jobs. None. The people who would like to have a job are in favor of the mine.
I'm neither for nor against the mine, yet. However I will say this, Watch the Money! If the mine Co. crosses the correct palm with money (politicians), the mine will be. If not, it will fail.
If it boils down to the salmon or the money, money wins.
Side note...The Fed. EPA is investigating the mine. Their first public meeting was in SEATTLE! Guess where most of the commercial fishermen who oppose the mine are from? Yep, not Alaska.
My advise, for what it is worth, before you make up your mind,follow the money. I would also place your comments in the 50% bracket as well. One of the primary arguments against the mine is their plan to place the settling ponds for tailing waste just above lake Illiamna, which has the largest run of Salmon in Bristol Bay. The three settling "ponds" will each be formed by the three largest dams in the world. They will probably never leak in our life time but in fifty years, when the money has all either left the state or all been spent, who will maintain the dams and clean up the mess?
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,743 Likes: 15
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
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One of the primary arguments against the mine is their plan to place the settling ponds for tailing waste just above lake Illiamna, which has the largest run of Salmon in Bristol Bay. The three settling "ponds" will each be formed by the three largest dams in the world. They will probably never leak in our life time but in fifty years, when the money has all either left the state or all been spent, who will maintain the dams and clean up the mess?
Considering the our regions seismic features, idunno about earth dams being very reliable for any length of time. They might just be good until the next quake and then turn to jello. Seismic Risk at the Pebble Mine
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,271 Likes: 25
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,271 Likes: 25 |
I've hunted/fished that area for 40+ years. I have camped where the dam is to be located. It is not the "headwaters" of Bristol Bay. It is a small creek that runs into the Kaktulik river which runs into the Mulchatna. The Mulchatna runs into Bristol Bay. That is the DEFINITION of "head waters".
Last edited by ironbender; 06/12/12.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
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One of the primary arguments against the mine is their plan to place the settling ponds for tailing waste just above lake Illiamna, which has the largest run of Salmon in Bristol Bay. The three settling "ponds" will each be formed by the three largest dams in the world. They will probably never leak in our life time but in fifty years, when the money has all either left the state or all been spent, who will maintain the dams and clean up the mess?
Considering the our regions seismic features, idunno about earth dams being very reliable for any length of time. They might just be good until the next quake and then turn to jello. Seismic Risk at the Pebble Mine But they promise to "restore" all the wild salmon with hatchery or pen raised fish if that happens. Just liked they promised to never do the mine if locals were against it - and then tried to block the election from happening.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
The Pebble Mine reminds me of the Rampart Dam idea, both are damn  ideas which belong in the same place, unfulfilled ideas in the annuls of history.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,271 Likes: 25
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,271 Likes: 25 |
Remember the McKinley Park dome-idea? 
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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OP
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Looks like someone won the 'google me Elmo' door prize.
Nope. Never heard of it before Saturday, when the TU feller showed up at our statewide sportsmen's org "summer" board meeting, looking for national support against this mining operation. He's just a "hired gun" working for both the national and Alaska TU outfits, near's I can tell? Think he said he's originally from the UP of Michigan. And we all know how mercenary and excitable them Youpers can be. ;O) But thanks to him, I now have a spiffy decal. 'Bout a six inch round one: Pebble Mine, with the red circle/slash on 'er.
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,255 |
Carefully read and research what you read. About 50% of it is BS from both sides. I've hunted/fished that area for 40+ years. I have camped where the dam is to be located. It is not the "headwaters" of Bristol Bay. It is a small creek that runs into the Kaktulik river which runs into the Mulchatna. The Mulchatna runs into Bristol Bay. It is only one of several rivers that dumps into Bristol Bay. If the mine kills that river, it will have a small effect on Salmon in Bristol Bay.
Most of the negative publicity comes from a Millionaire who has a Fish Lodge near by. He of course wants the area to accessible only by his expensive float planes.
Some of the locals do not want the mine because they will lose their guvment tit. They may have to go to work.
Nondalton and Illiamna are the closest villages to the mine. There are no jobs there except guvment jobs. None. The people who would like to have a job are in favor of the mine.
I'm neither for nor against the mine, yet. However I will say this, Watch the Money! If the mine Co. crosses the correct palm with money (politicians), the mine will be. If not, it will fail.
Since the mine will practically be in my backyard, I've more than a passing interest in it. I catch some heat from this, but the import of jobs will have minimal effect on the local villages in Bristol Bay. Those persons that live here and will work, are working. Those without jobs largely do not want consistent employment. The jobs and monies will primarily effect those living outside of Bristol Bay. Your quote "It is not the "headwaters" of Bristol Bay." displays vast ignorance about the watershed and the impact an inevitable failure in the necessary retention system will cause. The mine will immediately disrupt the region where it is built and has immeasurable potential for destruction throughout Bristol Bay. There is no conceivable long term upside for Bristol Bay or AK.
Suck bullets simply suck.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,355
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
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I don't have a lodge there, I have never fished or hunted there, my place in AK is about as far away from the site as possiable, and I live half a world away. I have been supporting the efforts to ban the mine since the get go. There is no world shortage of gold or copper. It is a strip mine, to all you for the mine I will simply put it like this. How would you like a strip mine next door to your house, favorite hunting or fishing spot, or any of your favorite outdoor recreational areas?
Most cring at the thought of a jail or military base being constructed in their neighborhoods. Just imagine a hugh swath of land being stripped clean and to never look the same again. Now add to it the local of this, a pristine wilderness area. Oh have I mentioned that we are lossing pristine wilderness areas at an alarming rate?
Anyone for the mine go [bleep] yourself
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Over the past few years the only honest argument I have heard was that there is much more money to be made from the precious metals that can be extracted from the area than the salmon industry could ever possibly generate.
So, as far as I am concerned that's what needs to be decided. Are we willing to trade our fishery for the more lucrative mining industry?
If we rid the area of salmon many locals, such as myself would probably switch to the mining industry for work, sooo long term, residents might find their income being more mining dependent than they presently may think.
The recently released External Review Draft from EPA is anything but supporting of the mine.
I don't see it posted on line just yet but it should be soon, it was released late last month.
It's titled EPA 910-R-12-004d "An assessment of Potential Mining Impacts on Salmon Ecosystems of Bristol Bay, Alaska"
The whole idea seems to be gambling with catastrophic environmental disaster. Alaska's salmon fishery has been around long before the United States was involved in the region but ever since the US has been involved the money involved in gold mining has been a large factor. State wide, mining employs more people and brings in more money so it's hard to tell which way this will go.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179 |
All of Americas resources should be set aside for the next conquering army.
Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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Are the Nips thinking about invading the Aleutians again?
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Looks like someone won the 'google me Elmo' door prize.
Nope. Never heard of it before Saturday, I was referring to the spammer who found your thread...teasing just a bit.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Posts: 4,771
Campfire Tracker
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OP
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No relation 'tween me and that doudou mofo. 
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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All of Americas resources should be set aside for the next conquering army. What was the first conquering army?
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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Originally Posted By: watch4bear
All of Americas resources should be set aside for the next conquering army.[quote/]
[quote]What was the first conquering army? That'd be the Liberal Democrats (CommieLibs), who have been gradually taking over the nation for several generations now. Some have yet to take notice.
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
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