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I'm a big believer in consistency. If I introduce something to a horse, I go back the next day and hope it's still there. If not, I just keep at it on a daily basis until the horse has it. I don't think you want to ask too much of them. I give them something new and don't burn them out over it, but try to make it part of their foundation before the next bit.

With the big responsibility of getting your butt in and out of the back country alive. If one can do that under most adverse conditions I can tolerate them not being able to do a flying lead change.

Ha! I hear ya!

I guess on further reflection, ther is a so called "majic bullet", but it is not majic at all. It is called foundation, and for me the foundation is laid with ground work. And yes consistancy is the key all through a horse's useful life. Speaking of useful, it remind's of an interview I heard of Dick Gaines I believe it was, comparing a horse to a bucket of water, in that every time we inflict pain on a horse, we take a dip of water out of the bucket, and soon the horse has outlived it's useful life. Foundation, and lot's of wet saddle blanket's for sure, and compassion.

Afreakinmen!

LOl I went to a clinic last week, after one of my old broke horses bucked me off and broke 4 ribs and seperated my left shoulder. My fault I know the horse is cinchy. So I am on vacation till I heal up. 700 cows are kinda taking care of them selves lol.Ed

Never a matter of if.. just a matter of when...

True story, I guess thats why I can see the humor in it lol. I just don't bunce back like I did. Ed

I have never had a mule I raised and broke out buck with me.I probably haven't been bucked of for at least 15 years and have no intention of doing so now.

I hurt myself more when falling over my own two feet.

I have folks say, "hey,my mule is doing this or that, how about riding it". The answer is always no now.

I could have said that too till spring of last year. Let myself be hurried, and rode out on a gelding I raised from a baby. On the way back home we blew through a ditch, and the sun-of-a-gun bogged his head and me with waaay too much rein out.

Here are some pictures that DanH emailed to me to post. This is Badger and he was being laid down to make him more submissive. He is a good horse but has been a problem child at times.

I believe Mrs. DanH took the pics.

I'll let Dan fill in the blanks.













[img]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Ironbender/2012Horseclinic/IMG_2537.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Ironbender/2012Horseclinic/IMG_2534.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Ironbender/2012Horseclinic/IMG_2467.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Ironbender/2012Horseclinic/IMG_2402.jpg[/img]

(not Badger)


This paint is one of mine taking a turn on the patience pole.

Disclaimer: we asked this horse with as little pressure as possible...

This horse has had a history of bucking people off - including myself. He was dropped off as a last chance (by the dog musher whom he was dropped off to). He can be really good, but when he decides not to do something it is nose down rear feet straight in the air.
My wife is more intuitive about horses and noticed some physical abnormalities. A blood test revealed an extreme deficiency in thiamine. His levels of thiamine were so low that his muscles were breaking down so he was in pain constantly.

After a couple of rounds of treatment the levels returned to normal and brewers yeast keeps the levels good. He is probably 100#'s heavier from what he was.

He will still have one bucking fit at the start - My youngest has his number and knows his signals. A couple of bucking circles to the right and one or two to the left. After that he turns into a real gentleman.

These pics were after a lunch break, he did already have his "buck" over with. The change since this has been remarkable. He has been ridden almost every day since then without so much as a hop. His ground manners were always very good, but the tension is gone from his demeanor.

The paint of ironbenders spent 6 hours feaking out about the reindeer while it grazed behind the arena, but the formal meeting was uneventful.

I would say laying one down is a last resort. If you sit on thier neck and not let them up for about 10-15 minutes, you should have establised who is in charge. They know if you're sitting on them, they're defenseless. It doesn't hurt them, just lets them know that you can do it.

I don't intend to speak for Dan, but I know *a lot* was tried with this horse, so it was sort of last ditch.

Is Badger a Little Peppy (Peppy San Badger) bred horse? If he is, being somewhere between 'cold backed' and plain old broncy would be somewhat expected. I ride cutters, and they are well known for bucking a bit. I had a gelding that was out of a little peppy mare I sold a few years back, he wasn't bad, but would crow hop a little, often even when working cattle if he wasn't ridden down enough.

Yes he is a peppy, rum squall, smart little lena, impressive (double neg on the tests).

The little broncy/ cold backed would be an understatement for his behavior.. Most of it people caused, not out of intention but out of lack of knowledge. (myself included in that group) Some horses are more laid back and suitable for beginners.

He is going to learn about ranch sorting and see how he does on an extreme cowboy course this weekend.

He may turn out better than I expected. More compassionate/understanding influences stayed my hand on his fate...

I was assuming so. I don't understand mixing Impressive (halter horse) blood with a cowhorse. That probably doesn't help things either, as they aren't particularly known for trainability. Worse than the bucking (I can handle a little of that), I don't like the way he sticks his nose out when the rider is pulling the inside rein. I have found it is really hard (maybe near impossible) to do much with a horse that instinctively doesn't want to give his head. In other words, if their first reaction to a pull is to stick their nose out, getting them to give their head and be supple is never going to happen, which means spending the time to train them will pretty much never pay off. Understand, this is based on an assumption from the picture, which may be not his typical reaction, I'm betting you know, though.

After many years of messing with horses (I grew up on a cattle farm) I won't mess with a horse that is a 'project'. They can turn out OK, but OK is kind of the best you can hope for. The worst with a somewhat 'mental' animal is ending up with them upside down with you on them, or getting a concussion from a head thrown into your chin. A playfully broncy horse, I have no problem with, one that loses control so bad they can hurt you by accident I don't need. I used to laugh when my gelding was cutting a calf and bucking. Too many good horses for me to waste my time with a project.

Also, I don't know your background, but I think some are inclined to believe where animals are involved that problems are people caused. Some of them are just knuckleheads, like some people. A beginner mixed with one of these is like giving a three year old a loaded handgun. Somebody is gonna get hurt! With one of these sometimes being compassionate will just lower your guard enough for a train wreck to happen.

Most all my riding now is related to training/competition in cutting, and the more I do the quicker I can pick out a horse I don't like, some of the natural tendencies (like the sticking out of the nose) are more trouble to fix than they are worth.

Jstevens.
I sure agree with you. A lot of ill manned animals are human caused,but there are ones that are just bad tempered.I quit messing with those kind years ago. In my younger days,I layed down a few rank mules. I made them useable,but not trust worthy.One always had to be on the look out for them.

Doesn't surprise me ironbender; looks like the turd was going over backwards on a couple of those shots.

As to impressive, personally i don't care for them and wouldn't have one(or anything thats bred to be a "halter horse"), but impressive was bred in the blue.

I'm really fond of the Little Peppys.