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Originally Posted by stray round
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Not a soul would be interested in these new designer drugs (i.e., there would be zero market for developing and importing them) if the traditional drugs weren't criminal to purchase and use.


I beg to differ. LSD was about as designer as you can get and there was and is a market for it, just like meth.
LSD wasn't outlawed in the US till 1966, long after other more traditional recreational drugs had been outlawed. Same with meth. There would never have been a market for its development if the drug addicted types would have had easy access to legal heroin, pot, and cocaine.

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Originally Posted by Ghostinthemachine
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
laws don't do much to control human nature. Laws provide the framework for punishment but not for any meaningful control.
Folks that want to kill, do so. Folks that want to take drugs, do so. Folks that want to drink Big Gulp Sodas, do so.

American drug laws are among the worst public policy decisions ever made in any society. They do virtually nothing to handle the drug problem, yet they are the biggest contributer to crime in our history.


Gull dang Sam, there is something we can agree on 100 percent. smile


A study came out just last week saying 23% of high school seniors smoke pot and only 12% smoke tobacco.


I've said for a long time that pot should be legal, taxed, and then baned the smoking of pot everywhere. It seems to be working for tobacco.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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Originally Posted by Mannlicher
laws don't do much to control human nature. Laws provide the framework for punishment but not for any meaningful control.
Folks that want to kill, do so. Folks that want to take drugs, do so. Folks that want to drink Big Gulp Sodas, do so.

American drug laws are among the worst public policy decisions ever made in any society. They do virtually nothing to handle the drug problem, yet they are the biggest contributer to crime in our history.
Well said.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
laws don't do much to control human nature. Laws provide the framework for punishment but not for any meaningful control.
Folks that want to kill, do so. Folks that want to take drugs, do so. Folks that want to drink Big Gulp Sodas, do so.

American drug laws are among the worst public policy decisions ever made in any society. They do virtually nothing to handle the drug problem, yet they are the biggest contributer to crime in our history.
Well said.


I agree. I don't condone taking 'recreational' drugs, but it really does seem like the "War on Drugs" has been a failure.


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Originally Posted by 340boy
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
laws don't do much to control human nature. Laws provide the framework for punishment but not for any meaningful control.
Folks that want to kill, do so. Folks that want to take drugs, do so. Folks that want to drink Big Gulp Sodas, do so.

American drug laws are among the worst public policy decisions ever made in any society. They do virtually nothing to handle the drug problem, yet they are the biggest contributer to crime in our history.
Well said.


I agree. I don't condone taking 'recreational' drugs, but it really does seem like the "War on Drugs" has been a failure.
I disagree. It's actually brought about exactly the effect it was meant to, i.e., an tremendous expansion in government and police power, along with a concomitant diminishment in constitutional safeguards of personal liberty.

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Originally Posted by 1minute
Just a way to service the druggies and stay one step ahead of the man.


No kiddin' but I'd be more than happy to draw a nice warm bath for the sick little druggies, heck i'd even add a lb or two of their favorite flavored bath salt, then stand on there neck till they quite floppin' grin

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I see nothing wrong with them.

Though I do crave live flesh to chew on...


Legalize ALL drugs
Make people accountable for thier actions and clear the streets of the scum.


"wanna hear God laugh? Tell Him you have complete control now!"
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Originally Posted by ColsPaul

Legalize ALL drugs
Make people accountable for thier actions and clear the streets of the scum.
Bingo.

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folks should disabuse themselves of any notion that if legal, drugs could be taxed. That is a fantasy.


Sam......

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Originally Posted by Mannlicher
folks should disabuse themselves of any notion that if legal, drugs could be taxed. That is a fantasy.


Correct.


The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Originally Posted by Mannlicher
folks should disabuse themselves of any notion that if legal, drugs could be taxed. That is a fantasy.
Who cares if they're taxed, so long as the rug is pulled out from under all those damned dealers and shippers of them into the country. It would put the CIA practically out of business. Down side is that local cops will have a harder time putting their kids through college. All that "look the other way" money would suddenly dry up.

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Originally Posted by Mannlicher
folks should disabuse themselves of any notion that if legal, drugs could be taxed. That is a fantasy.


Why? We tax everything else we can tax that to.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Not a soul would be interested in these new designer drugs (i.e., there would be zero market for developing and importing them) if the traditional drugs weren't criminal to purchase and use.


REALLY?!?!?

People don't hybridize plants to increase potency, or purify existing compounds for the same purpose or to increase profits?

Just what planet do you live on? Or are you just stuck in your hormonal 13 year old girls persona?

Ed


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Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Not a soul would be interested in these new designer drugs (i.e., there would be zero market for developing and importing them) if the traditional drugs weren't criminal to purchase and use.


REALLY?!?!?

People don't hybridize plants to increase potency, or purify existing compounds for the same purpose or to increase profits?

Just what planet do you live on? Or are you just stuck in your hormonal 13 year old girls persona?

Ed
Traditional drugs have serious jail time connected to them, while when these designer drugs are first introduced, there are no criminal penalties attached to them. You mean to tell me you're unable to perceive the market motive in developing and bringing these things out under said circumstances?

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yet another incident
link to story
Quote
MUNNSVILLE -- A Madison County woman alleged to be high on drugs is dead after assaulting her child and receiving a Taser shock while she struggled with police.

According to State Police, around 7:45 p.m. Tuesday Troopers were called to an apartment on North Main Street in the Village of Munnsville for a report of a woman assaulting her three-year-old child. While police were responding to scene, they say Madison County 911 dispatchers received several follow-up reports that the woman was punching and choking the child and had started to attack a neighbor.

When police arrived, they say they found 35-year-old Pamela McCarthy apparently under the influence of �bath salts�, an illegal synthetic drug. Police say Trooper Christopher Budlong attempted to arrest McCarthy, who was �violently combative� according to police and resisted attempts to handcuff her. Budlong used his police-issued pepper spray on McCarthy to no effect, so he then deployed his Taser and was able to handcuff McCarthy with the help of rescue personnel.

Police then say that after McCart

hy was taken into custody she went into apparent cardiac arrest. She was taken by ambulance to Oneida Healthcare, where she later died.

Wednesday morning, eyewitnesses David and Zachary Bridge told CNY Central's Jim Kenyon that they saw McCarthy come out of the rear exit of her apartment with the boy in her arms, and tumble down the stairs holding onto the child. They say she began assaulting the child and was yelling incoherently. Witnesses say at one point she was sitting on the pavement spinning and laughing as she was hurting the child. They said the boy's father intervened and took the child away from McCarthy, at which point she chased a neighbor, Heather Ames, into her apartment and attacked her.

Ames told Kenyon that she fought off the attack, and McCarthy went back out into the parking lot, stripped off all of her clothes, and threatened people passing by.

Witnesses say McCarthy then went back into her apartment and tumbled down the stairs again, this time with her pet pit bull in her arms, and then injured the dog as well. State Police and rescue units showed up at which point McCarthy became combative and resisted arrest. Ames says the Trooper (Budlong) repeatedly told McCarthy to let go of the dog, and pepper-sprayed her to no avail.

At several points, witnesses say McCarthy was warned by Troopers that she would be tased if she did not let go of the dog. After McCarthy was tased and handcuffed, a neighbor informed the Trooper that McCarthy had undergone an operation to place stents in her heart just two days prior to the incident.

All three eyewitnesses Kenyon spoke with said that Trooper Budlong was justified in the way he handled the situation.

Police say the child was taken by ambulance to Upstate University Hospital in Syracuse. He was treated for minor injuries and released to family members.

Troopers say an autopsy is scheduled to determine a cause of death, and the Madison County District Attorney�s Office will take the case to a Grand Jury upon completion of the investigation.


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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by stray round
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Not a soul would be interested in these new designer drugs (i.e., there would be zero market for developing and importing them) if the traditional drugs weren't criminal to purchase and use.


I beg to differ. LSD was about as designer as you can get and there was and is a market for it, just like meth.
LSD wasn't outlawed in the US till 1966, long after other more traditional recreational drugs had been outlawed. Same with meth. There would never have been a market for its development if the drug addicted types would have had easy access to legal heroin, pot, and cocaine.


Wrong again, Einstein. Go back and look at the history of meth development and abuse.

It was created (L-Meth) in 1906 by a group of Japanese chemists and was widely used the first time in WWI to assist soldiers in combat to keep them alert and aggressive without needing sleep or food for 72 hours.

It became more widely used in WWII and the fallout from that was the formation of the Hell's Angels and other OMGs who were no longer part of "normal" society and who large number of were addicted to meth from combat use.

It is STILL issued to some military members, but is more closely monitored.

Modern meth (D-Meth) is the result of science, not amateurs, looking for a cleaner substitute with less side-effects.

Since Congress changed (not the DEA!) the wording of drug statutes to include "salts, isomers, analogs, and variants" of already listed compounds, MPPP, MDMA, and now "bath-salts" are the products of amateur "chemists" who are looking for a bigger, better, cleaner high and have no relation to being produced to avoid drug laws.

If you want a more in-depth history, it's out there, you just have to find it before you open your ignorant mouth.

Ed


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It's a public health problem. You'll always have addicts whether the drug is legal or not. All the laws do is create a law enforcement "industry" that really doesn't want to address the root addiction problems as they don't want to lose their jobs. It also drives the addicts to criminality because of the cost factors in distribution of an illegal product.

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Originally Posted by atomchaser
It's a public health problem. You'll always have addicts whether the drug is legal or not. All the laws do is create a law enforcement "industry" that really doesn't want to address the root addiction problems as they don't want to lose their jobs. It also drives the addicts to criminality because of the cost factors in distribution of an illegal product.


This statement just show that you don't know many, if any LEOs, and why they do their job or why they make a career of it.

Go ask ANY LEO who works the street and ask them if they would like to see crimes involving drugs go away.

It's easy to stop creating addicts. Don't ever try drugs. It really is that simple.

Folks who want to legalize drugs constantly whine about the legalization and "personal responsibility", yet that same lack of personal responsibility allows them to stick that glass dik in their mouth or the syringe in their body for the first time is what creates addicts, not some law.

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



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..and millions of convicts out here on the streets don't help when it comes to that "first time" and what "personal responsibilty" even means.


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news flash, drugs are not going away. Keeping them illegal is what is flooding the prisons with miscreants, and fueling the violence.
Legalize drugs, even that just means pot, and crime and violence in America would plummet.


Sam......

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