Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 10mm Auto and AA#9, I think I have a winner here, intersting chrono results

Your frame/slide is taking a beating. I am not a fan of controlling the slide with heavier springs. When I had my 1911 set up to shoot 45 Super I sent it off and had the barrel slide mated properly to delay the barrel/slide unlocking. In other words they stay locked up as long as the pivot link will allow. I only use an 18.5 pound spring only 2 pounds over a stock spring.

You have signs of to much pressure but are unwilling to acknowledge them. One sign, higher than normal velocity sign-2, the brass is being thrown 30 to 35 feet. If this is fine with you then carry on. I would not

again, the radius on the firing pin stop influences unlocking. Here is an informative thread:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=13060

Also, do you have an extended ejector installed on your Delta? If too long they can cause violent ejection like you describe, as the slide is at full velocity during ejection. I had to slightly shorten one on a Colt Defender, as it was hammering my forehead with the empties

Have to agree with all those above expressing some concern....35' is WAY too far to be throwing brass. If you don't have at least a 24# recoil spring and full power mainspring in there the frame/slide is getting beat.

I shoot mainly Super but have shot some 9x23 from my guns also. When I do I go from a 18.5# spring with a Kings Recoil Buffer to a full length guide rod with 24# spring and a plastic Shok-Buff.

Keep shooting 180s over 1300 fps without the proper setup and you will be having the gun rebuilt in no time...

Bob

I understand Mark, where you are coming from and what you are wanting to do, but as much as i like the 10mm it isn't a .41magnum.
I also kind of snickered when i bought the glock, i didn't have the stuff yet to reload it so i bought two boxes of factory remington 10mm. After looking at it, my comment was, this looks like .40short and weak. They were 180 grain lead bullets. So I did a couple of things in the glock, bought aftermarket kkm regular and six inch barrels, increased the recoil spring but stayed much lower than what you are loading and what some of those guys were doing on the glock 10mm forums. I was just uncomfortable with pushing it too far. I still believe that 14rounds of 200grain bullets in the 1150 to 1200 range would take care of most social problems. I do seem to remember that i read somewhere that when they brought down the velocity of the 180grain bullet to that of the typical .40s&w range, it didn't seem to have much effect on it's capabilities. I didn't want to say it earlier, and you are entitled to do what you want to do, but as rjm says, it's gonna get rebuilt or go boom in your hand when you tempt the Gods.

I think this is a very astute comment.



As far as real world shooting goes, the Speer 180 gr GDHP bullet in factory loadings is advertised at 1050 fps. Hardly "whar's the barn?" velocity, to be sure. But this bullet/ammo has compiled a tremendous reputation as a "manstopper" in OIS's over the past decade or so. One metro agency I work with shot 35 bad guys with this round over a 3-year period, and 27 of those bad guys are taking permanent dirt naps now. Several of those were shot through windshield glass. Another agency I work with has gone to 9mm, but has stuck with GDHP ammo because almost all the people they shot with their 165 gr GDHP's over the previous 10 years were likewise Boot Hill residents.

You simply don't have to drive those bullets at supersonic velocities to produce a strongly positive outcome in a deadly force situation. All you do above a certain threshold of velocity and pressure is beat up your gun, your hands, and your ears, all of which degrade your firearm's service life and your shooting ability.



Ron, Mark seems to be very enamored of unnecessarily high velocity, pressure, and recoil, Gods know why. As you say, it's his choice. I'm not sure why I even try to comment on these threads, as he is clearly set on his course and hasn't been listening to those of us advising caution for some time.

Mebbe that warp speed ejection will take out a bad guy to the side - a twofer of sorts.

Oh, I am listening and appreciate the comments and concern very much. This this site has been a tremndous blessing for me over the years and you guys sound like I do when I try to tell a burgeouning handloader that if his 280AI loads are running neck and neck with the 7MAG something is wrong. The hot loads I rolled are not going to be a steady diet for the Delta Elite at all. No interest in beating up my wonderful pistol. I have a good supply of Blazer and other factory loads for practicing etc.

I will have to look into those mods that slow the barrel disconnect a little and calm down the ejection speeds of my brass. Broke as a church mouse right now but after I get my wife Sherri's breast cancer treatment done and paid for (We leave for the Cancer Treatment Centers of America Zion, Illinois center this Sunday Morning) will have to invest in some of these additional upgrades to the Delta Elite. It would be great to be able to FIND some of my brass to reload now that I have the gear and have learned how to do so and achieve reliability.

I shoulda done this long ago, was too askeered of the horror stories of handloads not running well in semi auto's, come to find it ain't all that tough. Thanks to Waders and those who reccomended to me that I buy a Lee factory crimp taper crip final sizing die. I can visually see a difference in the case shape, especially at the case mouth, after I run my handloads through them. The Hornaday dies I have size them down some at the bullet seating operation, and they would probably work, but after running them through the Lee die they look so much cleaner and nicer and more uniform at the case mouth's.

On the 200 gr loads that I will work on later, I think I will stop at about the 1150fps mark on those as I will be running a lot more of them through the gun at bowling pins etc. and a flat nosed hard cast bullet of 200 grains at that speed should knock 'em down just fine without tearing up my precious pistola. Shot to shot recovery for QUICK table clearing is improtant in that game as well.

I dreampt last night that I found a compensated 6 inch barrel for my DE at a pawn shop. Wouldn't THAT be a cool find!

Thanks all, my fast 180's are staying under wraps expect for carry ammo after I test for reliability enough to satisfy myself that they run through the gun OK. won't be re loading these cases, and no more loaded after these. I won't even be firing these outside of a little function testing unless the excrement has done hit the oscillator

Plan to treat these loads like the 38 Special Plus P Gold Dot 125's in my wifes aluminum frame Colt Cobra. I KNOW they are not good for it, so they are in reserve for use only in a crisis. Fired one cylinder full of them for testing only and that will be all this gun see's excepting if she pulls it in an emergency and then I will not care of the gun is all bent out of shape afterwards.

Anyone have a good recipe for 200gr FNHC bullets in the 10mm with AA7,9, or Unique?

That would have been a BOOMER in a Glock barrel ... for sure!

I am so anal about my brass now.

My G20 throws brass(Underwood 180gr @1300-1350fps) about 10-15 feet, tops. However, I do have a 20# recoil spring installed.
The velocity I stated is a guess, based on Underwoods numbers and the fact I am using a 6" barrel, a KKM, to be precise.

Honestly, Mark, I think you need to dial your loads back a touch. Say to 1200-1250 or so?

Mark, it seems to me an awful lot of tip-toeing is going on in this thread. You've had a run of bad luck that takes the fun out of jumping on a guy.

The fact of the matter is you're [bleep] up your pistol and risking injury every time you pull the trigger. Statements such as this indicate you don't know the fundemental operation of the pistol let alone address the problems:



It's time to go back to the basics - you're in over your head. I apologize if I ruffled your feathers, but this needed saying.

Nicely put, JOG.

Mark, you're well-liked here, by me and by others. After your failed attempt at getting an early Exit Visa from Planet Earth last year, we're all wanting you stick around for a while with all your parts intact.

That's all I was trying to say, but JOG said it better.

Points well taken and much appreciated. I am glad to hear that I am mostly well liked. Don't know exaclty what I did to deserve that but I will take it!

Don't worry about my feathers, I want to keep them attatched to the 'ol bod as much as anyone here! If I did not have thick skin I would have left this whole 24hrcampfire place long ago. If I did not seek and appreciate constructive criticsm I would not have posted about my handloads here at all. The whole POINT is learning from others with more experience than I and I freely admit that I am a relative newbie to pistols and handloading for them, thus my queries and reqeusts for input and intel here.

I am an expereinced handloader for rifles and wildcats, but not for pistols. Early in the proccess for me.

And as I said eariler, I AM listening and learning. And I do genuienly apprieciate all of the posts and concern. It is well placed and having effect. Only an abject fool would not listen and learn from all of this, and I try hard each day to not be one of those.

Thanks for the concern and help, sincerely.

Fair enough, Mark.

As JOG, I, and others have learned over the years, pistola kabooms are a nasty, nasty business. And they're not predictable. You MAY be safe with your hot 10mm loads, but you MAY NOT. It's notoriously difficult to say why a given gun blew up with a particular cartridge on a particular day, after it had been doing fine previously. And unlike most pistol guys, I don't just see these things at the range... I've had half a dozen guys who blew up guns end up in my ER over the past 25 years. Fingers gone or permanently damaged, thumbs blown off, one eye blown out of its socket. That's why I err on the side of caution with all my reloading, and especially with my autopistol reloads.

Whenever I get the urge to fire up a real smokewagon, I'll get out one of my heavy-duty SA revolvers. But my autoloading pistols are all kept to pretty much mild-mannered loads, all well within current SAAMI specs and current reload manual recommendations.

I used to be the same way with the Super.... 8.0 grains of Unique with a 124 Hornady FP would run 1420 fps....never blew a case in an unsupported chamber... BUT that was with new brass. If you happened to reload that brass to the same power level again and the same spot on the case that was unsupported the first time ended up unsupported for a second there was a good chance for a blow-out... Dropped the loads down to 7.0 grains which was still over 1300 for many years...after who knows how many tens of thousands of rounds one day while shooting the slide went back into battery and then about 1/2" more... The whole underlug had sheared off the barrel....and Irv Stone sent a new barrel free.... Now I'm down to 6.0 grains at 1200 fps the same as Factory +P.... When I need defensive ammo then I'll just pull out the CorBon...

Bob

...and may all turn out well with your wife....

You are always gracious as well as humble, Mark.
Good qualities, both.

As to a good recipe for 200 gr. lead bullets, I like 9.5 grs. of AA#7, Starline cases, WLR primers with Double-Tap's wide flat point 200 gr. cast bullets. I've worked up to as much as 10 grs., but the ejection of the brass was too excessive.
Good, under 2 inches at 25 yd, accuracy, within 1/2 inch of my standard 180 gr. load's zero, and great penetration. It will shoot through three of my 2.5 gallon jugs of water stacked end to end. That's 36 inches of water plus the container walls.
I suspect your AA#9 would work a bit better, BTW.
I trust it's a clean burning as well as a flash supressed powder ?
So, I'll add my wishes for you you to stay safe as well. Want you to stick around as well. E

The boyz over on the 10 MM reloading forum seem pretty into 800 X for max FPS with heavy bullets..... Several claim that max published loads are 3000 or 4000 Psi below other powder that has been pressure tested????

The complaint is that it " meters like corn flakes" so each charge has to be hand weighed and trickle charged.... Some have scanned in copies of older load books to make their points..... 800x from 20 something years ago may not be the same as the batch I just bought though.....

I have had pretty good luck with Blue Dot and 180 XTPs. Long Shot is on the bench now and I'm liking it better accuracy wise .... That maybe just because I'm learning to grip this fat pistol more consistantly though.....

What's your velocity on that load, E?

Thanks E and everyone else. I will try to be safe!

I am sending this gun off to Jack Hunington to be re timed (Barrel and frame to be locked together longer among other changes) and will have him pressure and function test these handloads as well. Even if he give a big fat NYET to my handloads, at least my frame will be protected from the currently excessive slamming evidenced by the overzealous brass ejection speeds.

Good decision. Although I commented earlier that you seem to be working up carefully, the "30 to 35 feet " ejection distance seems excessive. That's AK-47 class ejection Maybe even Kahr .40 ejection - although I never could actually find a case fired in a .40 Kahr, the damn things simply vanished!