Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Barnes TSX-"Meat Friendly"

I have shot quite a few animals with both the standard X and the TSX, and while in general they don't shoot up as much meat as some other bullets, I have also seen them bloody up a lot of meat, even on the far side of animals. As with any bullet, impact velocity has a lot to do with it.

The TSX is built to expand quicker than the standard X. Saw a coyote shot with a 140 TSX started at 3000 from a .270, range just about 200 yards (paced). The bullet caught the coyote low behind the shoulder, a perfect heart shot--and started expanding on the hair, evidently, as the ENTRANCE hole was about 3" wide. I have the photos in my file, which I occasionally show to people who claim X's don't expand very well. Didn't eat the coyote, but he was pretty blood-shot through and through.

Used a standard 120 X at 2900 a few years ago to shoot a big whitetail at 188 yards (lasered) with a 6.5x55, the buck angling slightly away. Not only did the top of the heart completely disappear, but the off shoulder was a bloody mess.

All of which only proves that one example does not prove any trend.

MD

Exactly! That's why I'm going to keep using them. My Bob just loves those 100 TSX's too much to quit after one try!

I shot a coyote at about 150 yards through the rib cage with the 338 Ultra and 210 XLC's a few years ago and have to say I was impressed with the wound channel. It definitely did NOT pencil through!

OK, so maybe it was overkill <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />, but a good "test" of the opening abilities of the bullet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

CAS, I'll make the same challenge as i did last time: Give me one reference (outside a forum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) of an anatomy site that lists that joint as anything other than a ball and socket.

A cavity doesn't necessarily infer it has to "enclose" the ball as happens with the hip joint.

Here's yet another link: Gray's Anatomy

Note the first sentence: "The shoulder-joint is an enarthrodial or ball-and-socket joint."

Heehee, aint' this fun? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Muley,
The link you posted is for a human shoulder. The human shoulder is VERY different than the "shoulder" joint on a deer (or horse, or dog). The human shoulder joint meets the definition of a "ball and socket joint", the joint between the humerus and scapula ona deer does not.

Show me how the "shoulder" joint in a deer is multiaxial, and I will buy your argument. Of course it is not, so by definition is not a "ball and socket" joint.

A good friend of mine is probably the premier equine veterinarian on the West Coast servicing all the major racetracks. I'll ask him this afternoon, as an Equine Orthopedic Surgeon, he ought to know what type of joint it is.

Just got off the phone with Greg's secretary. He is down south until tomorrow afternnon, so I'll talk to him about it then.

All,

Granted, my sample of one, is not statiscally valid. All I'm saying is; if I'd made that same shot with a non-bonded lead core/jacketed bullet, even at the relatively low impact velocity, I would have wrecked a whole lot more meat. I've made similar shots with "regular bullets" more than a few times in the past, and they all resulted in more wasted meat. Who knows. The next time I do it with an X, it may not perform the same way every time. I plan to do more "research" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As to whether or not the joint I referred to is a "ball joint". That was the best way that I knew how to describe it, and I think folks know what bones I was referring to, as a result. I'll stayed tuned while you guys duke it out, and maybe I'll learn something <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jeff

Here's a website from UCD that describes the scapulohumeral joint as a synovial joint. This next page describes a synovial joint . Notice that it makes no mention of "ball and socket.

Hell, I was confident before, but my confidence is growing my the minute.

What are we going to bet?

When cutting the front shoulders off of deer I have never seen a ball and socket joint. It appears to me to be muscle and cartilage. It cuts very easily with just a knife and bone is not touched unless it's done wrong....

Ex-wives?

While not precisely related to the TSX, my experience with the X on deer is pretty long and I have shot quite a few bigger critters as well. I see a difference with them between hitting heavy flesh and whistling through jelly lung tissue and ribs.

When the X bloodies a ton of meat, IME, it seems to have missed the shoulder. Shoot through, not behind, the shoulder and the bloodshot areas are greatly reduced.
art

I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!

THAT was one of the most hilarious thing's I have ever read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

'Course, would only be relevant if both guy's actually had ex's!

Huntr

If they don't, I have one they could use! Don't even need to return it / her. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LMAO! Okay -- YOU WIN!!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Want an ex-girlfriend too?????? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I haven't had time to look at those links, but will ...

How about beers? They're safer <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Art -- you're funny! I still am trying to find time to call. Going every direction...

huntr
Just happened to know they both might have something to wager... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
art

Beers it is.

Just so I'm clear though, the winner got to send his ex to the loser, right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> No way I could do that to you Scott, Osama doesn't even deserve that!

Last year my brother shot a 175 lb whitetail with a TSX out of a 300 Win Mag. If I remember right the velocity was about 3,300 fps and he shot the buck through the shoulder intentionally at about 50 yds. The onside shoulder was so bad we just threw it away. Off side shoulder wasn't in good shape but we salvaged a lot of that shoulder.

Scott,
I talked to my vet buddy today, and apparently there is some debate about the classification of that joint. Hopefully this will make sense since I'm trying to translate what he told me into English.

There are some who would classify the joint as a ball and socket joint. The evidence they cite is that there is in fact a rounded end that fits into a concave "cavity" in the opposing bone.

Opponets of that position cite that unlike a true ball and socket joint, the rounded head is not enclosed within the cavity. Further, they cite that the strict definition of a ball and socket joint requires that the joint be able to move in more than one direction (multiaxial), which the scapulohumeral does not. He mentioned the human hip as a textbook example of a true ball and socket joint that fits all criteria.

Greg's position is that while the scapulohumeral joint does exhibit some characteristics of a ball and socket joint, it does not fit the strict definition of one, and therefore should be classified as something else.

He also pointed out that you could likely find someone to make a convincing argument for the reverse position.

So, I think we should call this a draw. You think that it is a ball and socket joint, and I think the opposite. We are both right depending on perspective.

I hope to God that this doesn't mean that we get stuck with each others' ex!

LMAO!!!!!!

Though you might??? get the better end of the ex-swapping deal (she's really not THAT bad for an ex <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />), let's just keep our own <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!!!

A draw sounds reasonable. If we are able to hook up, I'll buy here, you buy there. How's that sound????