Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Bore cleaning solvent ???

Like other solvents, toluene is sometimes also used as an inhalant drug for its intoxicating properties; however, inhaling toluene has potential to cause severe neurological harm.[1][2] Toluene is an important organic solvent, but is also capable of dissolving a number of notable inorganic chemicals such as sulfur.[3]

Xylene, can turn into an acid when mixed with certain chemicals


MEK = Bad chit

Flammability

Butanone can react with most oxidizing materials, and can produce fires.[3] It is moderately explosive; it requires only a small flame or spark to cause a vigorous reaction.[3] Butanone fires should be extinguished with carbon dioxide, dry chemicals or alcohol foam.[3] Concentrations in the air high enough to be flammable are also intolerable to humans due to the irritating nature of the vapour.[6]

[edit] Health effects

Butanone is an irritant, causing irritation to the eyes and nose of humans,[6] but serious health effects in animals have been seen only at very high levels. When inhaled, these effects included birth defects.[7]

Butanone is listed as a Table II precursor under the United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances.[8]

On December 19, 2005, the U. S. Environmental Protection Agency removed butanone from the list of hazardous air pollutants (HAPs). After technical review and consideration of public comments, EPA concluded that potential exposures to butanone emitted from industrial processes may not reasonably be anticipated to cause human health or environmental problems. Emissions of butanone will continue to be regulated as a volatile organic compound because of its contribution to the formation of tropospheric (ground-level) ozone.


Obviously the poster has inhaled Way TOO much of his own concoction. To mess with any of these at home, or to even put them in a rifle bore is assinine. Butchs or some other commercial product is much better.

Swifty

Well, I thought I shot a lot, but I guess I was wrong. I certainly don't use enough solvent to justify mixing up some concoction. A can of Montana Extreme and a couple of Wipe Out have lasted me a very long time.

My version of Ed's Red, equal parts of:

Original ------------------------ Substitute
Automatic transmission fluid ---- Automatic transmission fluid
Mineral spirits ------------------ Mineral spirits
Acetone ----------------------- Cheap lacquer thinner
Deoderized kerosine ------------ Marvel Mystery Oil

Marvel Mystery Oil because it was on the shelf, kerosine wasn't. Not convinced either is necessary but I like the odor. Lacquer thinner because it is less volatile than acetone and locally available.

I've used it on 4-H trap guns the last few years as well as my own firearms, there are four to eight shotguns to clean each week while we're in session. The mix is very good at removing powder fouling, old oil and assorted crud. Not much else, like metal or plastic (wad) fouling. When wiped off it leaves enough for lubrication and rust protection so besides saving a few bucks it saves us some time. Other than that I don't see an advantage over a commercial product.

Here's a link to the original article on how and why Ed's Red came to be, some historical interest. Scroll down a bit. In the article Ed Harris claims it is good for removing plastic wad fouling, perhaps if I had not substituted lacquer thinner (which contains acetone) for acetone. Perhaps not. I use Brownell's Shotgun Wad Solvent for that which works very well though it is unpleasant stuff.

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I've used gunslick bore foam with good results the patches seem to come out very blue after just leaving it in 10 minutes no longer.

I AM FULLY AWARE OF WHAT I AM HANDLING.

For you to imply that I am not, without knowing me so much as one iota, is ASININE.

Do you always assume new members are bumbling idiots?

I sure hope this isn't representative of this forum...

Concern that one poster, good or bad, reflects on the entire forum is ASININE as well.

Thank you for putting it in perspective. I'll shut up for now.

Are you cleaning barrels or launching ICBM's?

I am curious. What does your mixture do better or different than commercial solvents? Some of the newer commercial solvents are quite good.

I sincerely doubt it does anything different or better than what is currently available on the market, but it is inexpensive.

As for modifying Ed's Red, I will spell out why I changed what I did, as follows:

* replacing run-of-the-mill ATF with the JD Low-vis stuff: I wanted to see if I could improve its penetration characteristics by using something I knew was inherently lower in viscosity than the ATF I have in stock. If there is any difference, it is minor IMO.

* replacing acetone with MEK: I wanted the solvent characteristics of acetone coupled with a lower evaporation rate. Got it.

* the addition of toluene: purely experimental, I wanted to see if there was any improvement in the solution's solvent effects on powder. Maybe, maybe not- I don't have a controlled environment such as a laboratory. The toluene is something I had on hand, anyway.

* the addition of Lube Control LC-20: this additive has a long history, it was once known as Esden Oil and Micro-Lube way-back-when. The mixture was patented in c. 1948, and is believed to contain a fair amount of cyclohexanone. IIRC the patent mentions both a substantial improvement in the engine oil's coefficient of friction (CF), and being an oil antioxidant. With today's oils, the CF improvement may be quite minor; however, I can attest to its antioxidant properties which is one reason I added it (the second was to see if I could improve on Ed's Red's solvent properties).

* the addition of the Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer: as I mentioned previously, to improve the mixture's lubricity and to use up my existing stock.

There you have it.

I can mix up this stuff for probably about 25% +/- for what I would pay for something in the store. It works for me.

How is it on copper fouling?

Ed's Red- as well as my modification- doesn't really go after copper fouling. It may help reduce its degree of accumulation, though- can't really say but IIRC Ed Harris may have said the same thing about his original mixture.

I use the 10% janitor-strength ammonia from Ace Hardware when I need to go after copper fouling, then I follow it up with my mix. I tried triethanolamine (TEA) but it didn't do much at all; I suspect the commercial mixtures that include TEA use some sort of positive catalyst with it to make it do its thing...

Hmm.

There are much cheaper and easier ways to get carbon and plastic fouling out of barrels, such as carburetor cleaner. It's also usually better to use a carbon cleaner before a copper solvent. Otherwise any carbon build-up may at least partially block the copper solvent.

Yep, almost any sort of ammonia mixture will get copper out. But if the ammonia is mixed with water, you pretty much have to reapply every 10-15 minutes, before the water evaporates. Otherwise the ammonia will etch the bore. This may not be visible even through a bore-scope, but it will roughen the bore enough to further encourage carbon and copper fouling. The newer ammonia copper solvents are mixed with oil, which prevents this etching. You just slather them into the bore, walk away, and let them do their stuff.

Are you using a bore-scope to test the effectiveness of your methods? Are you familiar with Dyna Bore Coat and it's advantages in preventing bore fouling, including plastics, carbon, lead or copper?

On this Dyna Bore Coat thing... no bore scope available, so do I just clean and clean and clean until there's no discolored patches and call it good? I can go at it with BT Eliminator, Butch's, Iosso bore paste, and that's all I've got! My rifles have always cleaned up easily it seems.

If your rifles clean up easily and go quite a while between cleanings before accuracy starts to go downhill, there's no reason to install DBC.

I install it only in barrels that get shot a LOT, such as those on prairie dog rifles, or if an accurate barrel fouls so much the accuracy goes to hell pretty quickly.

DBC comes with directions on how to get your bore completely clean beforehand, written by me. Though some customers have objected to them, instead suggesting incredibly time-consuming and redundant methods, almost as complex as Crashbox's "cheap" bore solvent. One even insisted on finishing off the process by repetitively pouring boiling water through the barrel, as if cleaning a flintlock.

I've never been impressed with Butch's. BT Eliminator might work, and Iosso bore paste is OK but kinda slow. The surect way I've found to get ALL the fouling out of a bore is a tight bore-brush wrapped in a cotton patch slathered in JB Compound. The brush/patch has to fit the bore tightly enough to require some muscle in pushing it back and forth, but about 20 of those will clean everything out.

I agree on the Butch's. The eliminator seems to work very, very well. What do you consider "going a while" between shootings? This Tikka 695 seems to go 50 rounds or so. The HCR Rem 700 I'm not sure, I've just cleaned it every 30 or so so far. Up until very recently (it's new to me anyway), I've been trying to find an accurate load and finally have. It wouldn't hurt anything to apply the UBC anyway would it?

Yes, Mule Deer I read that post SOMEWHERE in recent months.

1. My perception was you were being Tongue in Cheek. That is important IF you were.

2. I read so much on the 'fire', I could not possibly locate it.


I also DO NOT clean bores as often as many do. I do however clean them BEFORE they show accuracy suffering. That's just my way. Occasionally BUT NOT TOO often.

I have been TICKLED by friends who do not understand why the first shot AFTER cleaning the bore is NOT where the gun is sighted.

I had a close friend to shoot his gun the 3rd time after cleaning and each time the bullet landed closer to +, till 3 was dead on.

He said, "I'll not clean it anymore." Also TiC.

Guess I'm just a simple guy. Shotgun barrels get carb spray cleaner and a follow-up with EEzox. Rifle barrels get Sweets, CR-10 for copper. I value my rifle bores to much to put something unknown in them.

It's a funny thing about people and their firearms, and what they use to clean them. Very much like arguing Ford/Chevy/Chrysler, or back in my film photography days, what developer to use, or SIG/Glock/Springfield/Beretta/CZ/OnAndOn- everyone seems to have a preference and opinion.