Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Reality Check: Unanswered Questions About Colorado Theater Massacre

crosshair, I am sorry if I misunderstood the true meaning of your post by responding to it literally.

Anyway, my post pointed out where people can get some unvarnished facts, and everybody can draw whatever conclusions they want from them about what happened. The response sounded quick, and everybody sounded like they were attempting to stay on task under newer protocols, but dynamic situations rarely go 100% according to plan.

After Columbine cops in Colorado (and elsewhere) no longer set up a perimeter first. They go straight in. First and foremost stop the shooter and save lives.

Here's a question I've been pondering. Had the police engaged and either by missing or with a pass through hit a bystander, what would happen to him both criminally and civilly? I imagine civilly the officer would retain his sovereign immunity and the department take any hit. I can't imagine he would be criminally charged.

Now change the officer to a CCW holder under the same set of circumstances, What then?

Good point.

Police Identify Bystander Shot By Officers, Offer Apology
Columbus Police say the woman was shot near the intersection of Neil Ave. and Spruce St. early Saturday.(Photo: Google Maps)
3:30PM
July 9, 2012
Steve Brown
by Steve Brown
NPR
Columbus Police say the woman was shot near the intersection of Neil Ave. and Spruce St. early Saturday.(Photo: Google Maps)

Columbus Police say they have apologized to the woman who was accidentally shot by officers over the weekend.

Police say 29-year-old Heather Garrett was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Columbus resident was walking near the intersection of Neil Ave. and Vine St. in the Arena District early Saturday when Officers Ryan Steele and Jesse Perkins opened fire on Dennis Weigand after he reportedly tried to ram officers with his car.

Columbus Police Sergeant Rich Weiner says an investigation is ongoing, but it appears that Garrett was hit after a bullet that ricocheted off something nearby.

Weiner called the shooting �a cost of doing business.�

�This is a very horrible consequence that happened,� Weiner told reporters Monday afternoon.

�And you know what? There�s nothing that we can do to take it back. I can guarantee you that this is not only life changing for Ms. Garrett and the suspect, but this is going to affect the officers, as well,� Weiner said.

Garrett remains in the OSU Medical Center, and Weiner says she�s expected to make a full recovery. Weiner says police at this point have given zero thought to any potential civil liability in the shooting.

Now change the officer to a CCW holder under the same set of circumstances, What then?

If this is true, and it likely is, those cops are entering a situation absolutely blind and dumb. They no nothing of the situation at hand and are in extreme danger. Information received in those opening minutes is either nonexistent or very unreliable. They are sent in to buy time at a very high price, potentially their lives.

Here's a question I've been pondering. Had the police engaged and either by missing or with a pass through hit a bystander, what would happen to him both criminally and civilly? I imagine civilly the officer would retain his sovereign immunity and the department take any hit. I can't imagine he would be criminally charged.

Here's a question I've been pondering. Had the police engaged and either by missing or with a pass through hit a bystander, what would happen to him both criminally and civilly? I imagine civilly the officer would retain his sovereign immunity and the department take any hit. I can't imagine he would be criminally charged.

Now change the officer to a CCW holder under the same set of circumstances, What then?

What planet do you live on? And you claim to be in some sort of law enforcement?...

2744.03 Defenses - immunities.

(A) In a civil action brought against a political subdivision or an employee of a political subdivision to recover damages for injury, death, or loss to person or property allegedly caused by any act or omission in connection with a governmental or proprietary function, the following defenses or immunities may be asserted to establish nonliability:

(1) The political subdivision is immune from liability if the employee involved was engaged in the performance of a judicial, quasi-judicial, prosecutorial, legislative, or quasi-legislative function.

(2) The political subdivision is immune from liability if the conduct of the employee involved, other than negligent conduct, that gave rise to the claim of liability was required by law or authorized by law, or if the conduct of the employee involved that gave rise to the claim of liability was necessary or essential to the exercise of powers of the political subdivision or employee.

(3) The political subdivision is immune from liability if the action or failure to act by the employee involved that gave rise to the claim of liability was within the discretion of the employee with respect to policy-making, planning, or enforcement powers by virtue of the duties and responsibilities of the office or position of the employee.

(4) The political subdivision is immune from liability if the action or failure to act by the political subdivision or employee involved that gave rise to the claim of liability resulted in injury or death to a person who had been convicted of or pleaded guilty to a criminal offense and who, at the time of the injury or death, was serving any portion of the person�s sentence by performing community service work for or in the political subdivision whether pursuant to section 2951.02 of the Revised Code or otherwise, or resulted in injury or death to a child who was found to be a delinquent child and who, at the time of the injury or death, was performing community service or community work for or in a political subdivision in accordance with the order of a juvenile court entered pursuant to section 2152.19 or 2152.20 of the Revised Code, and if, at the time of the person�s or child�s injury or death, the person or child was covered for purposes of Chapter 4123. of the Revised Code in connection with the community service or community work for or in the political subdivision.

(5) The political subdivision is immune from liability if the injury, death, or loss to person or property resulted from the exercise of judgment or discretion in determining whether to acquire, or how to use, equipment, supplies, materials, personnel, facilities, and other resources unless the judgment or discretion was exercised with malicious purpose, in bad faith, or in a wanton or reckless manner.

(6) In addition to any immunity or defense referred to in division (A)(7) of this section and in circumstances not covered by that division or sections 3314.07 and 3746.24 of the Revised Code, the employee is immune from liability unless one of the following applies:

(a) The employee�s acts or omissions were manifestly outside the scope of the employee�s employment or official responsibilities;

(b) The employee�s acts or omissions were with malicious purpose, in bad faith, or in a wanton or reckless manner;

(c) Civil liability is expressly imposed upon the employee by a section of the Revised Code. Civil liability shall not be construed to exist under another section of the Revised Code merely because that section imposes a responsibility or mandatory duty upon an employee, because that section provides for a criminal penalty, because of a general authorization in that section that an employee may sue and be sued, or because the section uses the term �shall� in a provision pertaining to an employee.

(7) The political subdivision, and an employee who is a county prosecuting attorney, city director of law, village solicitor, or similar chief legal officer of a political subdivision, an assistant of any such person, or a judge of a court of this state is entitled to any defense or immunity available at common law or established by the Revised Code.

(B) Any immunity or defense conferred upon, or referred to in connection with, an employee by division (A)(6) or (7) of this section does not affect or limit any liability of a political subdivision for an act or omission of the employee as provided in section 2744.02 of the Revised Code.