Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 400 grain Speer in the 45/70

Hello all,
Although I can see myself eventually switching to hardcast in all my big bores, jacketed bullets suit my needs currently. With Remington 405's being virtually non-existent (and my stockpile getting lower) I have switched over to the 400 grain Speers. I've heard their performance is quite similar possibly with the Remington being a tad tougher. My question is this...has anyone had personal experience with this bullet on game? I don't intend to push it faster than about 1600fps. Thanks for any input.

They work fine at standard vels. Why in hell does everyone wanna shoot hardcast?? Would ya use a 458 mag solid for hnting deer through bears?? A hardcast does the same thing. Penetrate,NOT open up.

I love a good jacketed bullet but I'm really tired of the cost increase and lack of availability at times. It never fails that about the time I really get used to a certain thing, it becomes very hard or impossible to get. I like being more self-sufficient than that. If I can hoard away enough lead and get some good moulds I won't have to worry about that anymore. One less thing to worry about.

250 pieces of 405gr cast = 67.99 @ midway
250 pieces of 405gr Speer = 149.95 @ midway


I have not hunted with cast, but I sure wouldn't care to. I do shoot a lot of paper/steel/targets with cast.

This myth of the holy hardcast can be an eye opener for guys taking their first big game. Hardcast drills a clean hole unless it plows through bone - and Elk don't just fall down because you made a loud noise.

I bought a lot of Remington 405gr JSP a long time ago on sale. They work great on Elk. I don't have a need for hardcast anymore because I don't shoot enough for the cost to be an issue.

Back to the original question, 2 Maine whitetails have fallen to my 1895GS with the Speer 400gr FN over 45.0gr IMR3031. This load shoots a one hole clover leaf at 50 yards and left a blood trail on both deer that a blind man could follow.

Now,good luck finding the Speer 400gr to be anymore available than the Remingtons. While Speer still lists this bullet I am not sure when they last produced them. I bought 8 boxes about a year and a half ago and am glad I did.

Thanks Cush, you may be right. The Speers have been hard to find and the cost will make your eyes bug out. For the deer hunting I do, I know the 300 grain bullets would be fine. For bear, boar, and the occasional elk hunt I really love the heavy bullets.

If ya gotta have a jacketed 400 grain bullet and don't mind cost, take a look at the Barnes Buster and the Woodleigh bullets. They are available right now, and are good bullets, but they cost!!

Edited to add a mention of the Barnes "Originals", too. This bullet would be more likely to expand than the "Buster".


One bullet that is available and can handle deer, pig, and black bear without a problem is the 300 grain Speer UniCor. This is the one I use now, and I have loaded it to 2200 fps to emulate my .30-30s trajectory. But, I am rethinking that. When the current crop gets shot up, I may load down to the 1900 to 2000 fps range.

Bearcat, I have noticed a big difference in performance with a large meplat cast versus a roundnose, as far as the animal's reaction to the impact and internal damage. But, even so, I still see more reaction to the shot with jacketed.

I have been hunting with the 350 Hornady FP @ 1922fps, that should create a reaction.

I have several hundred 405 Rem's laying here, several hundred 300gr HP's, 150 Barnes TSX-FN's, 300 of the 350 Hornady FP's and 700 pieces of cast bullets.


I need to start working with the Barnes bullets, looks like a big old flying ash tray.

Are the TSXs 250 or 300 grain? Either one oughta cause mayhem.

Sorry about that, they are the 300gr TSX-FN. I saw the Banres manual say that 34grs IMR-sr4759 would run them pretty good and other have had good luck with 50grs RL7 and the 300 TSX-FN @ 2000fps+.



I bet the 250's would be unreal when gotten up to speed.

I like the looks of both of those bullets. Another interesting one is the one for the .30-30. If mine didn't shoot the Hornady 170 FP so well, I'd try it. I may do it, anyway.

I like those "flying ash tray" Barnes bullets. I use a BPCR in 45-70 as my primitive weapon in Louisiana. This gun has a 30" Badger barrel and shoots the 250 gr. TSX's at 2,550 fps. I'm using Barnes loads for the 1895, although the John Moses Browning designed 1885 single shot is stronger than the 1895, pretty close to a Ruger #1.

I also have an older, pre-safety 1895 that I shoot Hornady 300 gr. HP's at around 1,850 fps. I have loaded them to 2,000 fps, but the gun starts kicking pretty hard above 1,850 fps or so. The BPCR weighs around 13# with scope and recoil isn't much of an issue, even with hot loads.

BTW, this gun is fitted with a Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 CDS and is calibrated for this load. I get a bit over 300 yds. with one turn of the CDS and with this gun, I can put bullets on a pie plate all day long at 300 yds. (best group, 4").

DF

That are a nice lookin' rifle!

Dang, that's gorgeous. My 1895G looks like plywood next to that one. Sounds like a real shooter too.

The wood is select American Walnut, the barrel is made in the USA by Badger, Miroku makes the 1885 action and assembles it all for Browning. I bought this gun used from a BP shooter. It has a wonderful trigger and the previous owner sent a spread sheed full of all sorts of loads, some duplex. It had no sights, so I saved there, as well as the gun being used. It's worked out really well for its intended purpose and it's a "keeper".

DF

ed. for spelling.

I have been using both the Remington 405gr and the 400gr Speer JSPs for years. I use 39gr of IMR-4198 for either bullet. Velocity is just under 1600fps. Since this is the velocity range you are interested in I can tell you the Speer bullet is very effective at this speed. I have never recovered a bullet from game that I have shot with this load. I even drove one length wise through a spike buck. I hit it in the chest and the bullet exited from behind the right rear leg. The Speer 400gr is a big bullet that expands well at moderate velocities. Lots of shooters like to drive these bullets faster at around 1800fps but I see no need to put up with the extra kick as I have had very good results with the above load. This includes several large Russian Boar. Accuracy has been very good too. I also like to shoot Hard Casts but thay are mainly for practice.

Having used the 400gr Speer on a couple of deer and a couple of bears my experience running them at 1900fps is that they overexpand. 1600 might be the sweet spot for them. OK on deer, but on one bear the bullet looked to have immediately pancaked and followed the path of least resistance which was not through the vitals....

The expanded bullets I have recovered are impressive, the results less so. I'm loading 350gr Hornady FP now but haven't shot anything with them.

IMR4350, Wyliec, thanks for the information. That's exactly what I was looking for. I've researched the Speer bullet but I wanted real world experience, or boots on the ground info. Thanks!