Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The "Core" Of Ryan's Budget Plan

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eZsH-00hs5g[/video]

I recall taking an senior level economics class while at Arizona State 25 years ago. The professor (who is probably dead by now) said that because on the age demographics of the nation (the baby boomers - which I am a part of), that with Social Security and Medicare and Medicaide, we (as a nation) had a big problem looming on the horizon as there will be more people getting these benefits than there are paying into the system. It was a bubble, it was it growing, and at some point, it was gonna pop. Well, that day has come. Over time, we (as a nation) have been also been making it easier for people (say, aliens) get benefits from these same programs. So, as President Lincoln once said, "there are too many pigs, not enough teats."
The three biggest consumers of our national budget are SS, Medicare/Medicaide, and the Pentagon. They completely eclipse everything else combined. So taxing the wealthy and 1% (like the liberals say we should do) ain't gonna fix nothing.
So if we are going to fix our debt problem, we better have a plan to reduce, somehow and to some degree and in some fashion (everybody will have an opinion of what and where - I don't want to go that direction with this topic right now), these three budget things. To not do so is to be reaaranging chairs on a ship that is going down and arguing what will be on the menu.
That said, obummer has no plan to fix any of it. I personnaly believe he is the worst president the nation has ever had. True, he didn't necessarily get us to this situation by himself - the can has been kicked around for a long time now (as my economics professor said was happening), but he has made matters much worse.
I think Ryan's plan is the best one anybody has come up with. It will be painful. A reduction in SS and Medicare benefits will hit me personally. Oh well. I iwould rather it be SS and Medicare than national defense (although they gotta tighten and prioritize their budget too). I guess my parents and grandparents and other aged relaitives got from me what I won't be getting. Life sucks at times, but that is the way it goes. I fugure everybody is going to have to take a bite of this sh__ sandwich and pass it down the line. No sniveling and whinning. But let's fix this. The liberals have no plan to fix it - they are too busy giving away more programs to the leeches of society trying to get their vote and using our national credit card (which is about maxed out) to do so.
If I were the president, I would pass a law making everyone in America everything pay a flat tax. Rich, poor, everybody. That way everyone would have skin in the game to make their lives better and make this country better. That is what made America great - self intitative and hard work. I would get rid of SS and medicare/medicaide. I would make everyone be responsible for themselves instead of relying on government and their ponzi schemes.
Go Ryan and Romney. They will not save us, but they are going the direction we as a nation should be going. The POS obummer and the idiot Biden, and the democraps have no clue and no plan, so for them to pick Ryan's plan apart is pretty shi___y because they have no plan.
Ok, end of rant.
Go Romney and Ryan.

[bleep] is in charge. [bleep] rules. The present [bleep] will probably continue to rule because Romney won't be [bleep] enough to get him kicked out.

good post flagstaff, your econ prof was a smart man indeed, evidently he owned a calculator.


there's some here that don't think DOD spending should be touched, and while I'm a strong proponent of a strong military, I can't stand to see all the fat that goes with the muscle of our current military.


for us to truly "fix" our budget woes would take a strong leader, one that's not interested in winning a popularity contest which is what our elections have become.


a strong leader would propose cutting SS, Medicare, Defense and eliminating entirely some .gov Depts that while in the abstract may have been a worthy ideal, the truth of the matter is we just can't afford them right now. Course it will be met with the refrain "we can't afford NOT to have _________ (fill in the blank, social programs or defense programs)


he'd also advocate that everyone pay a bit more tax for awhile, the 1% ers and the 99% ers.


thus his core constituency would be a handful of Americans that own calculators, know how to use them and are intellectually honest enough to admit we're in deep kimchee.


course he'd have me at the promotion of all of the above, but I'd certainly have more respect for him if he'd also advocate eliminating entirely the pensions and benefits of all past and current members of Congress that are alone responsible for creating this mess and that anyone working in DC in any gov't capacity will work for 35K per year and no benefits of any kind.
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If it' patriotic for Americans to pay taxes, I'm convinced it'd be extremely patriotic for everyone in DC to earn closer to the average of most Americans. Besides it seems having to learn to budget is a skill most of them need to acquire

not so much to punish these wise guys but to stimulate the economy, I'm always hearing how much more they could make in the private sector and I'm thinking if we gave them the boost that was needed to hit the private sector that all their collective brainpower turned to private enterprise would undoubtedly spur another period of Renaissance!


but a "strong leader" like that will never be elected, we as a whole don't deserve freedom and liberty, "we" as a whole just want the party to continue and will vote for whomever promotes the best "idea" promoting class warfare.

The sad truth is, though, Bristoe, that even the very moderate (and likely inadequate) Ryan plan will not likely get passed without some further watering down, since we have a Representative Republic with universal suffrage. So getting the Rand Paul plan passed instead is little more than a pipe dream.

We're likely going down the drain as a nation, but given only two choices, I'll go with the guy who seems to be trying at least to toss some kitchen scraps in there to slow down the process over the guy who wants to widen the drain hole.

I know that.

I just don't understand why someone who has been paying attention as closely as you have get's all starry eyed about the fact that a neocon golden boy has been selected as a running mate for the GOP candidate.

I'm far from starry-eyed over the prospect.

I was particularly impressed with Ryan's plan to exclude anyone over 55 from the SS and other cuts he advocates... convenient since that would protect one of his prime constituencies.

I suppose what constitutes political courage nowadays ain't what it used to be. :p

And don't even get me started on his plan to grant yet another huge tax break for those who make the most. This is the new definition of 'budget hawk'. I've been one practically my whole life and for the life of me don't know how all of these 'cut now figure out how to pay for it later' tax plans are taken seriously.

The devil in in the details.

MOF it is ALL IN THE DETAILS. After election cycle after election cycle with president candidate after presidential candidate selling the same snake oil why can't we understand this? Is America really that unsalvageably stupid? Do we really believe that this time is different? That this time we really can make 2 + 3 = 4? Or in this case X minus Y still equals X?

It is a god damned crying shame that I have to state that in my adult life Bill Clinton (Bill Freakin' Clinton!!!) was the most fiscally sound president. How bad is that?

Gawd.

Will

Penguin,
With the debt and obumer's redistribution of wealth model, I suppose there are two ways to look at the coming election (because it reality, you get a choice of Romney or obummer - there is no viable third party candidate out there). If you chose obummer, the nation as we know it is doomed. The redistribution will continue, bigger government (Big Brother) to tell us what to eat, what to buy, and give us your guns to quell any possible uprising. He also has no budget plan to get us out of the drain of debt as we swirl down. In fact, I believe he has only alloweed us to gain speed.

Or you can take your chance with Romney and Ryan. I believe Ryan has a plan, although not near strong enough for my likes.

I suppose you could just not vote too as an option. That doesn't get you anywhere though as it says I am too chicken to make the decision.

If you vote for obummer, I suppose it could also be viewed as letting us go down the drain, so we can then can at some point bob our head up and reemerge as a different nation. Kind of let the nation implode and pick up the pieces on the other side approach. A lot of people will probably die with this approach. Maybe a civil war of sorts, or anarchy I suppose. I could liken it to ripping the band aid off quick of a unhealed, weeping wound if you will.

Or you could chose Romney. He may slow the swirl down the drain, but he will maybe lengthen the time before we hit unevitable bottom. Maybe like slowly ripping the band aid off approach. But with the slow method, maybe the wound will heal enough to not cause as much calamity. Maybe he can slow it some, enough that the calamity isn't as bad as with the above mentioned obummer approach (let's let it implode and start from scratch again).

So I guess theer are two ways to look it it. Band aid of quick, or band aid off slow.

Heya Will, I hope you've been getting the goods ready for this years football pools! Really looking forward to reading the banter in that thread again!

You mentioned a phrase that always gets my attention because I believe it's predicated upon a wrong premise...

Cut now, pay for it later...

If you cut something, you're not looking to pay for it...

If I were to cut your salary by 5,000 a year, I wouldn't be looking to replace it. It's a cut. It's painful, but it is what it is, a cut.

Sadly, with baseline budgeting the norm in Washington, not giving you a raise is considered a cut....

That's what the Ryan plan is. It's not so much a cut, but a restraint on future spending of money that we don't have.

I have also noted that every time in history that taxes on business have been lowered, the National Tax revenue increases. That's straight from IRS records...


It's been said many times and in many ways that we do not have a taxation problem (though, I believe we do) we have a spending problem.

Gotta agree with that. We are spending more than we make. Cuts HAVE to be made and nobody is going to like it when the cuts hit them...

If part of that top 1% fails again we will just bail them out again.

That's been standard operating procedure for a very long time. Needs to change, of course. And you're actually only talking about the top 0.001%.

You better believe it man! I understand the football pool a lot better than present day politics.... I understand that I am not as good at the end of the season as I thought going in. :p

We'll tee it up and see whether the old Penguin has any tricks for everyone this season.

Will

So what alternative do you have? When people have planned their lives and retirements on a plan, you owe them an alternative if you plan to change it.

I am sick and tired of having the generation before me make all of these stupid economic choices and then try to clean it up on the back of mine.

You want to do away with SS and Medicare and all of the rest in it's entirety? Fine, that is another stupid decision and I suppose I'll go along with it.

But don't exclude yourselves and keep your nice nest eggs intact and try to tell me it is my duty to pay for your subsidies while mine are evil and socialist. That isn't courage it is another example of a selfish and deluded generation patting itself on the back for screwing the one in line behind it.

I say exclude no one. No grandfather clauses, no bringing it in step at a time. Any changes take place immediately. No exceptions.

Will

For those under 55 the choice of SS personal accounts is optional in his plan. Keeping SS 'as-is' is another option. I'm not sure how that compares to Romney's plan. R/R have said they are going with Romney's plan.



Ryan's plan does not get rid of SS or Medicare.

Is there anything worth supporting in "your world"? You are one of the most negative curmudgeon I have come across in a long time.
Is there anything that looks positive or are you always a "post" away from checking out? You must have a miserable existence!

If Penguin looks to Clinton as his most notable fiscal hawk, its for two reasons. Clinton was dragged kicking and screaming (pre Monica) to sign a tax decrease. And who authored that? Newt and the gang did. Furthermore, Clinton was living in the influence of the post Reagan era supply side era.

The National Bureau of Economic Research states that the longest economic boom occurred between '82 and '99 - even into 2007.
The net worth of households and businesses increased from $20T in 1981 to $60T in 2007. More wealth was created in that 25 year period, adjusted for inflation than any other time in the previous 200 years. The average GDP was 3.4% overall and between '83-'99 it was 3.8%.

Contrast that with the present infatuation with Keynesian economics. Obama is engaged in massive government spending $5T to date in order to increase demand. Its not working folks. Business is stuck in neutral due to fear of the future: Bush Tax Rates, federal regulations (EPA) and the huge implications with Obamacare.

I see that Penguin is pizzed with solving the problems of the previous generation. Well that is the way of the world. Who does he think is going to deal with them? My question to him is: what are you doing to solve the problems before your little penguins have to deal with them?

It's going to suck, but everyone needs to give a little if we are going to get out of this mess. More people filed for SS disability than new jobs have been created in the last 4 year, mostly because they ran out of unemployment and can't jobs since they are over 55.

The only way we get out of this is with a clear budget plan that is sustainable, clean up the banks including breaking apart the super banks so there is no too big to fail, and get capitol flowing again at a reasonable rate. We also need to fix the currency issue with China and develop more cheap energy which will bring jobs.


Maybe we could see the good old days of 3% growth again, but not until we get a plan together and Guys like Ryan are what we need to lead the discussion. The alternative is a Japan/ Europe like slow death with 10%-20% unemployment and 1% growth for decades. not what I want to leave my kids.

Penguin also take issue with the 55 yoa limitation to modifications for SS and Medicare/Aide. The reason for is to allow those with 10-15 years of work left to divert some dollars into another direction. The 55 age is also designed to leave those too close to retirement age to change and to GUARANTEE that the governments promise to them will not change. Yes, Grandma will not be pushed over the cliff!

Once again people, contrast this with Obama who has no plan other than to add to the national debt and demonize the rich.