Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 5-shot revolver vs. 15-shot auto for carry/defense

I carry a Ruger LC9 for CC.Part of carrying concealed is actually having a piece that you can easily do it with.I own several hi-cap pistols ,but they are hard to conceal because of their bulk.I also have a Tomcat in my pocket for back up.Single stack pistols really are the ultimate for carry in my book.

mackay,

wasn't quite sure what you meant on the last part of your post--but this is likely my fault because i mentioned a change i made in the past that is unrelated to your question, but it did serve as an example to re-evaluative thinking.

the rifle is an integral part of my hunting, shooting, home defense, and of course always goes along on longer road trips--as well as two handguns. yet, when going out to do handgun drills--if shooting both rifle and handgun in a session, of course both went along for the ride by necessity. but, when doing handguns drills only, for a period of about 25 years there the rifle stayed at home, but as i mentioned earlier, i re-evaluated that practice about 4 years ago, and at least one rifle always goes along now, even though there is no plan to use it during the handgun shooting drills.

but specifically regarding the theater incident--i've thought alot about the situation those folks were in since that happened. this is difficult, because i cannot see in my minds' eye what was really happening in there--the layout, the lighting, the positions, etc. etc. but at this point i've made no specific changes, as i am very happy with things--it took decades of work to come to my present conclusions--but there will always be room to improve--and this is in my thoughts daily--no definitive re-evaluating conclusion yet though.

regarding that situation for a "movie-viewer" that night, in my estimation, it would have been very difficult to quickly know what was actually happening in that fray, but suffice it to say that the best equipped, most calm pistolero would have been at a significant disadvantage--both with respect to his equipment, and an accurate assessment of circumstances--even if that guy who committed this terrible crime were a beginner in the use of firearms.

the one "conclusion" i did reach so far was; i figure if that cat could have known beforehand that everyone in the theater was surely armed, he would have likely stayed home, knowing that the batman fans just might wanna "scratch and bite"...

i'll visit with ndc about it, as he always has interesting input regarding any scenario, and i'll ask my good friend scenarshooter too--just to hear their thoughts--they're two of my closer shooting friends and i consider their input invaluable.

would be interested to hear your preliminary conclusions or thoughts too...

Fellas,

Just read this entire thread. Pretty interesting thoughts/comments.

I'll just add that whenever in two legged environment I always have my Wilson with a few extra mags, and when in the woods after four legged it's a K-22 and/or Mod 25 in LC.

RLTW

I would not limit choices to the two given in the thread header. I carry a number of different guns for different circumstances. In general, though, the three MOST important factors for me in a carry gun are:

1. Reliability. If the damn thing doesn't work when it absolutely, positively has to, who cares if it's a tack driver?
2. Stopping power. This will be debated until hell freezes over, but all things considered, I'll take the one that makes the biggest hole going in, with the added beneficial effect of using street-proven SD ammo. There are times when I'll carry smaller calibers when I have to, but given a choice, I'll take a .45 or .40 whenever possible.
3. Concealability. Some of us have a harder time concealing than others due to body type, wardrobe, etc. This translates into a smaller-is-better, lighter-is-better requirement.

Going small often conflicts with factor number two, stopping power, and there are always additional tradoffs in choosing carry weapons. That's why I'm looking hard right now at the new XDs .45 and why I'm probably going to get one. It just might strike an optimal balance for me.

The main tradoff is capacity. Minimal acceptable capacity is something each of us must decide for ourselves. Given my conservative lifestyle (apart from pursuing large, hairy animals), I'm comfortable carrying 5+1, with the 7-round mag in reserve. If I haven't solved the immediate problem with that firepower, I'd best be getting the hell out of Dodge anyway.

YMMV, of course. These are simply my personal priorities.

RLTW, a big 'Thanks' for that service. Glad you're back safely.

RLTW,

I can imagine it was a great learning experience in many ways rolling with the ODAs. Lots of great skill sets to pick up from individuals in addition to your overall experience.

(A bit off subject)
When overseas, my 1st line belt was heavy on pistol mags (a bit over 100 rounds in spare mags and the primary)in case I had to drop my kit and haul a$$ for whatever reason. Pistol ammo and blood stoppers primarily, along with some other specific items.



I figured if all else fails, I could get out of dodge quicker in that fashion. Call it the "Monty Python" method..


Glad you made it back, btw.

A quality 1911 45 ACP allows you one shot to do the job and six or seven more for damage control.

I went to my friend's gun shop yesterday. I brought my friend who is a realtor and feels he needs to carry to show houses. There has been a rise in "squatters" and sometimes you go to show a house and there are homeless people in it! He also provides a service and collects rent so it's probably a good idea. He has a hammerless 5 shot .38 special but he wants a semi auto. He wants a small gun that he will be able to carry everywhere and he wants a 9mm. I'd recommend he carry the Cor-Bond 115 grain loads Massad Ayoob developed if he's serious about self defense with a 9mm.

My buddy's Dad was a cop. His Brother is a cop. His other Brother is Harbor Patrol and he's done a lot of shooting. His Brother the cop wants a Smith and Wesson .380 with a built in laser. We looked at it yesterday and the shop owner said that he got 5 in and sold 4 in 2 days. He's got 5 more on order. He said he's sold over a hundred of them... 5 at a time. I think a .380 is too small. I think a 9mm is too small. I'd start with a .40 S&W but he has a couple thousand rounds of 9mm and he said .40 ammo is too much money! What can I say!

In my research, I looked for small, light, reasonably priced semi autos. Kahr Arms is right next door in Massachusetts and they make very nice compact 6 and 7 round semis. I know 2 gun shops that carry them and people have been really happy with them. The all metal guns are around $600. They make a plain Jane version with less milling steps, less engraving, and a couple cast metal parts. It comes with only 1 magazine but it's $400. They make a polymer lower gun that's $350. I also noticed that Sig has a small frame polymer gun for about $400. 7 rounds of .40 S&W. He's favoring a Smith and Wesson gun called a "Shield" that's like $350.

I don't carry because I live in Rhode Island! I do have a compact pre ban Sig compact with a 13 round double stack mag and I have a Glock 17 with the 17 round double stack. They are obviously bigger guns. They have gotten a lot smaller and more concealable in the 20 years since I bought mine. After the high capacity ban, so many single stack mag guns have come out. They are easier to conceal and would be more comfortable to carry around. You are better off taking it everywhere, so a small gun has it's advantages.

For a while, I got into the "carry my 5 shot .38 because it's small and light" way of thinking when off duty. Since the Aurora Co. incident, I have changed my EDC mode. Now, every time I leave the house, I'm carrying a Glock 23 .40 with an extra 13 round mag in my pocket, or my Glock 30SF .45ACP with a 13 round G21 mag in my pocket. I also carry a 4 sevens mini 123 light and a folding knife. the un-trained, un-disciplined active shooter like the one in Aurora, would have a hard time concentrating on killing my sheep when a determined sheepdog (me) is advancing on him bouncing Federal HST's off of his head, no matter how much body armor he is wearing. it's kinda hard to do that with a 5 shot. I'm not suggesting that anybody here has to do that, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna let some SOB kill kids and old ladies while I hide. Ain't gonna happen! YMMV

Thank you!!

Very Good - probably the BEST description I've ever read or heard.

I've used both revolvers & autos enough to be comfortable and hunt with 44 mags.

For carry/defense I perfer FLAT SIDED, hi cap, autos. My 'baby' is a S&W 6906 but I also like the 40 cal, just don't have one.

in an earlier post concerning the theater incident, i mentioned my preliminary thoughts on the matter.

i ended by saying, "i'll visit with ndc about it, as he always has interesting input regarding any scenario, and i'll ask my good friend scenarshooter too--just to hear their thoughts--they're two of my closer shooting friends and i consider their input invaluable".

these are merely immediate, "off-the-cuff" comments:

ndc's comment; it would have been a very difficult situation with a fair amount of concealment--and likely no cover.

scenarshooter's comment; a guy who knew what he was doing--using an hk p7--would have made a significant difference in that situation.

of the hundreds of guys i've shared range time with in the past 40 years or so, these two guys--and of course shrapnel--i would consider to be the most experienced, and the most skilled in the use of firearms.

curiously, all three of these men use the hk p7...

interesting post, I've mulled the need to carry some years after a good friend of mine was killed over in Manley some years back by some whack job that figured he was better off doing his crap in the woods and "getting" lost. That failed and he was killed but left his mark in so many lives thereafter.

the 9/11 incident stirred me as well so I bought a .40 Smith and after reloading and shooting some gave it to my oldest daughter. I soon acquired a G20 and have it to this day as it fills the "bill" sota speak.

my son just got home from the war over there and done a few tours as a young Marine. he now wants a .45 ACP and I do not question his thoughts. He just headed out the door to check on some moose sign finally down river with a bud and I gave him his M29 4" along with 6 rounds and his p64 .338. He was pretty happy to have his hands wrapped onto them pistol grips.

Guess my understanding is that whatever you have in hand to shoot with is better than not having one when the time comes.

I do the same thing-------------if for NO other reason than I hate to see a coyote get off scot free. But more to the point, even if just at the range, or an improvised range, I've always got at least one firearm that stays loaded. Call me paranoid, over prepared, or just wisely cautious...........I still remember that the both of the murderous felons in the '86 Miami FBI shootout kept themselves supplied with guns and vehicles by getting the drop on guys out shooting in rock pits (or at least that's how I remember it), and of course there's Costner getting caught with two empty sixguns in Silverado. While probably a coincidence, that movie came out in '85.........

Interesting history about Lee BTW.

Curious that a P7 could have a laser for use in a dark theater where one could not see his own sights. I had a P7 it was very accurate but I sold it and I stick with more conventional systems. Every one wants to fret over this or that gun or load, I like Dogzapper's comment regarding shooting deer with a 222, He says none of them lived to tell about it. " I just shot them like I would with any other rifle" that my friends is the answer.

And that's a fact Jack.

that is precisely correct--i began to think about things while out shooting in a somewhat remote area at an "improvised range", and though a handgun feels good in the holster--and even better in the hand--when out in an area where distance is involved, a rifle always feels best. whether traveling to, or leaving the area, the rifle magazine is always stoked. sometimes i will walk out--even up to 800 yards out to the targets--and though its a hassle, i always carry the rifle along. the situation with goblins like platt and friends who visited guys while they were out shooting--and relieved them of their gear--was very much part of the reason, as at least half of the time i shoot alone--focusing on my skillsets...

regarding the comments on the p7--often times, i prefer a .45 auto, and when out on the road for a long drive, i take two handguns along--a hi cap 9mm, and a .45 auto, along with a rifle.

i wish they had made the p7 in .45 auto--no, not a sample--but production runs--but they didn't, though they offered it in a .40--which ndc uses along with his 9mm. i have no use for the .40, nor do i care for the p7 in .40, due to the weight they added to the slide--far too heavy.

when speaking of the p7, i do not refer to it as "magic"--a glock 19, or a sig 226, or a p35, or a usp, or a "whatever you desire" will work for all of us. 25 years ago, i chose the p7 as my initial self defense rig because some years earlier my right arm was nearly cut completely off in two places below the elbow--in the initial evaluation, they were going to amputate, but they did save it, saying i would never be able to use it. i now have about 60% use of it; it has very little feeling, has zero dexterity, always feels like it was crushed by an anvil, etc., so i needed something "simple" to manipulate--based on "clench", and the p7 met my need. today i train myself with almost all other systems--to master almost all of them, and have been doing this for about 23 years or so--with my right arm and hand in this condition, it has been a long, arduous road--not just in shooting, but in doing my artwork, my construction work, etc., but with diligence we overcome these setbacks.

i will also point out that as mentioned, scenarshooter uses the p7, ndc uses the p7, and shapnel uses the p7--these are guys that have alot of experience with the p7, and many other different firearms--they all shoot a great deal, and all of them are very highly skilled. all of these guys bought theirs after i purchased mine--but i did not influence them in this matter--they all came to this conclusion on their own.

i find in my personal experience the p7 is the most reliable of all the defensive handguns. even if loading "squib loads" that will in many pistols fail to cycle the action, the p7 still works with lower power loads up to a point, (of course not advisable for defense, but this was discovered in the quest for cheaper ammo, so when using swaged lead pills--and before i used hard cast--which by necessity have to be loaded down--to prevent bothersome leading). unlike published literature advising against lead pills, i never had a problem with the p7 in shooting many multiple thousands of cast bullets--ever. though i never tried it myself, hk claims the p7 will run without the extractor--who else dares to claim that? in timed speed and precision drills, i can shoot the p7 faster and more accurately than any other rig--so it is my top choice in 9mm. but the beauty of it is we americans are so fortunate--for we can shoot these rigs--and own them too--and there is more than a wheelbarrow full to satisfy everyone.

perhaps another line by bruce lee; take what works for you--what is useful to you--and throw the rest out.

some years back i modified this line some for myself; take what works for you--what is useful to you--and file the rest away for another day.

my goal in coming to the 'fire is to learn from all the posts i read--and am always "at once both encouraged, and humbled--by how much varied experiential knowledge everyone here truly has..."

when you need to start shooting 5 rounds will be gone real fast. Ill take 13 in my G23 and won't look back. Its easier to hit a still paper target with no stress than a moving man thats shooting at you. 13 gives me the ability to suppress till i can get some cover. although I do love my 642

yes! Those cops in NYC were firing to suppress and suppressed 9 people besides the killer.

They hit him 10 out of 16 times which is great shooting at someone pointing a 45 in your face. What were they supposed to do, not shoot and let him go about his business. It sucks and was probably those cops worst nightmare to hit the bystanders, but its a situation that the bad guy put the officers and the public in, not a situation that the officers put them in. Wish they wouldnt have missed the guy at all, but thats just not reality when you are being shot at too. Thank God no bystanders were killed. I do agree that suppressing fire is not for every situation but if it is warranted and in the right situation I will be able to