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Joined: Sep 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I've been hunting elk for 45 years & I don't think I've ever seen twin calves. It its legal there shouldn't be any debate, an antlerless tag is meant to be.......an antlerless tag for a reason.
Dick
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
My buddy and I were hunting for a spike Sunday in the Utah general season elk hunt. We watched a cow and her two young calves run across a sage brush flat and after about 30 shots all three were dead. Good lord, unless someone is truly hurting financially and desperate for meat, I cannot see gunning down calves.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,955 Likes: 10 |
Calves, in my book are the finest of elk table fare. If one could only take about 3 per year.... Near any cut is a breakfast steak that can be cut with a fork.
1Minute
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Elk are social animals, and orphaned elk calves do better than orphaned mule deer fawns because they still have the herd to watch over them. As mentioned, twin calves are rare in elk so in most instances one of the calves is likely adopted.
As far as color differences between wet and dry cows? I'll admit that sometimes heifer cows appear lighter in color, but I don't know if any color variation is enough to distinctively tell them apart from wet cows......there are too many variables such as sunlight angles and cleanliness of hide to make it a reliable indicator. If you're bothered shooting wet cows, watch the herd for a few minutes until you find a heifer, they are likely better eating anyway.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,437
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,437 |
My buddy and I were hunting for a spike Sunday in the Utah general season elk hunt. We watched a cow and her two young calves run across a sage brush flat and after about 30 shots all three were dead. Good lord, unless someone is truly hurting financially and desperate for meat, I cannot see gunning down calves. +1
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
+2...those poor little things. I'd feel like shidt. 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Mar 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,243 |
Gees- I dont see why the need to shoot a calf let alone a couple in the same breath. I hunted with a group that shot anything that ran by them in the past. Then they would complain when the population didnt recover. i dont hunt with them anymore but they still complain that they dont see any animals or animals of size. Maybe i lean more twords trophy animals now than in the past but still dont see the reason for calf hunting. Especially now that calf recruitment is so difficult in many areas because of predatation. To each his own- Thats what makes this country tick.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 22,690 |
as dry as this summer was, our (Utah's) winter range is in terrible shape. UT DWR has increased the number of cow/calf tags by many thousands to try to reduce the burden on range.
IMO, those calves were lucky to be shot, the fate that awaited them this winter was / is much, much more gruesome....
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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I can not understand 30 shots to kill 3 elk! That in itself tells you a lot about the hunters.
Man and man's best friend still looking at the green side of sod.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,193 Likes: 23 |
The number of shots isn't uncommon in elk country when a few of the boys get into a herd. That's far more disgusting to me than shooting calves.
Elk populations in most states and provinces are on the rise, and in many areas the winter ranges are taking a beating. By far the highest natural mortality is to calves, with at least half never making it to a year old, and in a drought year (like this is over much of the West) the rate will be much higher, especially if the winter is anywhere near normal.
Not shooting calf elk due to an aversion to shooting "babies" is an understandable reaction among many hunters, but it doesn't make any sense biologically with the general high elk populations these days. In fact some biologists argue for primarily killing elk calves (or fawn deer) because that more closely mimics natural mortality.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
The number of shots isn't uncommon in elk country when a few of the boys get into a herd. That's far more disgusting to me than shooting calves.
Elk populations in most states and provinces are on the rise, and in many areas the winter ranges are taking a beating. By far the highest natural mortality is to calves, with at least half never making it to a year old, and in a drought year (like this is over much of the West) the rate will be much higher, especially if the winter is anywhere near normal.
Not shooting calf elk due to an aversion to shooting "babies" is an understandable reaction among many hunters, but it doesn't make any sense biologically with the general high elk populations these days. In fact some biologists argue for primarily killing elk calves (or fawn deer) because that more closely mimics natural mortality. JB: Oh, I understand all the biological reasons for shooting them...and that it's part of sound game management.And I have no objection to it being done by anyone........it's just that I would feel bad.....I must just be getting soft in my old age...LOL! 
Last edited by BobinNH; 10/12/12.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
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Having shot a few yearling elk calves I agree on the delicious nature of yearling elk meat.  I do find it harder to drop the hammer on a yearling but I have never regretted it when it came to dinner time. If there are 2 antlerless tags then it seems a cow calf pair makes a lot of sense as the orphaned calf will have a tougher time. My guess is that the trio in the OP was a cow calf pair and an orphaned calf.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not to mention that when you do kill a cow elk, most are pregnant. So, in fact, two elk are being killed. And that is what the biologist want.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Dinner time would go a long ways to assuaging my guilt...
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,437
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2011
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I guess I'm misunderstanding the information that nearly everyone has been given over the last couple of years.
All we have heard is Elk populations are way down. Pert near everywhere.
Gunning down 2 calves doesn't help a bit.
With the stresses put on many of the populations by fuzzy things. I can't imagine the cow calf ratios are at an acceptable levels.
I could be wrong.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 179
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 179 |
I guess I'm misunderstanding the information that nearly everyone has been given over the last couple of years.
All we have heard is Elk populations are way down. Pert near everywhere.
Gunning down 2 calves doesn't help a bit.
With the stresses put on many of the populations by fuzzy things. I can't imagine the cow calf ratios are at an acceptable levels.
I could be wrong. Utah and Montana are in different boats concerning elk populations because we don't have wolves as of yet. Antlerless tags are still an active part of elk management in almost every unit to keep elk herds within management objectives. The inevitable arrival of wolves here in Utah will likely bring an end to the widespread issuance of antlerless tags and we'll soon be facing the same problems Montana and other wolf states have in dealing with declining elk populations.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,193 Likes: 23 |
Elk populations aren't even down in all parts of Montana. In some areas they're high, if not climbing.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,260
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,260 |
I'm more perplexed on the shooting of a perfectly healthy raghorn when there's a cow or calf standing next to it... when the antlerless is legal and the hunter is dying to pull the trigger.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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the op's question centers around ones ethics, not legality or right vs wrong. we all have different ethics to some degree or another. since the op has issues regarding shooting the calves, from an ethical standpoint he believes it is wrong. others who have already posted see no ethical problem with shooting the calves (or shooting mom and letting the calves walk). clearly, their ethics allow for the shooting of a calf. using ones ethics alone as a measuring rod, both made the right call.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I would love to hear how ethics are different from deciding what's right and wrong.
What the OP is basically talking about is his personal emotional reaction to killing "baby elk." This is often a holdover from the days when game departments discouraged killing any anterless animals, because populations were really low. For a long time there ws a taboo about killing "mommy deer," for instance.
Nature doesn't make such fine distinctions, and neither did humans who really did hunt to survive before "game management" showed up in so-called civilization.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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