Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 357 mag for Deer. 158 or 180gr?

Use the 180's that you have

Midsouth Shooters Supply still lists the 180 Remingtons.
51.07/250 in the 2012 catalog.

www.midsouthshooters.com

No I have no tie in with them other than "Long Time Customer"

I think the other replies to your question were good, but I'd add the suggestion that as a new handgun hunter you might want to do some reading/research into the pros and cons of cast and jacketed bullets for handgun hunting. I'd start with Paco Kelly's articles at leverrifles.com, John Linebaugh's website, and the excellent downloadable book on cast bullets for hunting by Glen Fryxell at http://www.lasc.us/articlesfryxell.htm.

I've used both cast and jacketed bullets for handgun hunting. I carry mostly my own cast bullets in my 45 Colt guns, but jacketed bullets in my 44's and about 50:50 in my 357's. It's more a matter of what your experiences have been than which is "better".

But if I had to generalize, I'd say this: a heavy-for-caliber cast bullet is a penetrator, ideally suited for heavier game such as elk, moose, feral hog, and bear, whereas an expanding jacketed bullet (or HP cast, for that matter... I'm just beginning to experiment with some of these, and they're a blast, literally!) is better for lighter game such as deer and varmints.

Example: this 300 gr WFN-type bullet cast from "sweetened" WW alloy and dropped into cold water has a BHN of about 20. I used to hunt with this bullet a lot, driven at about 1300 fps out of a Ruger Bisley. It pencilled right through a couple of deer, including one doe I shot in the shoulder with the bullet exiting out her opposite flank. These deer ran half a mile before dropping, the latter doe in dense swamp/woods that took several hours' tracking to finally collect. This bullet was recovered from a sandbox after it drilled through a 14" seasoned maple log. That is just too much penetration for deer hunting, IMHO.



That bullet in that alloy is too hard. I now cast that bullet out of a softer mix to about BHN 10-11, and it flat devastates anything I've shot with it, DRT. It expands and destroys tissue beautifully. I don't hunt with what most people call "hard cast" bullets any more. My experience, like that of Kelly and Fryxell and others, points to softer alloys being much better for clean kills.

Example #2 is this CorBon 115 gr 9mm slug (MV~1300 fps) I recovered from a whitetail I shot from a tree stand, shooting almost directly down and into the chest cavity. The bullet penetrated through the chest cavity and was recovered under the skin in the shape you see it there. The deer dropped like it had been pole-axed, and its chest cavity was red jelly.



Every deer I've shot with JHP bullets has dropped pronto. But there's a downside: I shot a raccoon the night before the deer, from the same stand, with the same gun & bullet... he freakin' exPLODED, and his mature bull coon pelt was destroyed. If I was hunting coons or yotes for fur, I'd not use this bullet but rather a cast non-expanding bullet.

Hope this doesn't just muddy the waters for you. The point is that there is no simple answer to the question of which bullet is better until you take into consideration the load, the gun, and the game.

I agree with Doc. For deer hunting, 12 to 15 inches of penetration is enough. You want the largest hole that goes to that depth. As I said above, I've killed bunches of deer with a .357 145 gr. Silvertip, and it did a good job and usually exited.

If I was the OP, I'd use the 158 JHP he already has, backed up with 15 grs. of H110, put it behind the deer's shoulder, and get my knife out.

Thanks Doc, that's some good info. I was a bit hesitant to use a 158 hollow point because I've always felt "bigger is better) I want to use the .357 because I shoot that particular gun better than my others. I sold my .41 mag because for some reason I couldn't hit squat with it.
Slow and heavy is what I'm used to from hunting with muzzle loaders

FWIW, one of my handgun hunting compadres in WI sold his 44 Magnum hunting revolver a few years ago and switched to a 6" M686 357 Magnum. He is a great shot with rifle and okay with handgun, but couldn't hit with his 44. He switched to the 357 and shoots 158 gr JHP's now and has killed every deer he's shot at since.

The 357 flat-out kills critters. It's a helluva round, and most handgunners can handle its recoil better than a 44 or 45.

The hunting load in my 357 Magnums is the Speer 158 gr Gold Dot , Win 296 and CCI 550 MAG Primers . You will have no problem killing deer size game with this load if you hit them where they live.

Great post as usual Doc. I'm guessing a 240gr or so cast SWC from wheelweights and launched out a 16in 44mag trapper should be a doe-dumper?

Anyone use the 140 gr barnes xpb? I am planning on using 158gr XTP this year but have been considering a change for next year. I have a 586 with a 6" barrel.

Re; that 140, Wiley Clapp recording phenomenal accuracy in a 4" GP100 in a rest, like UNDER .5" at 25 yds....I'd not thumb my nose up at that XTP if you can put in thru vitals

In a 180 in a short handgun bbl, the Rem SJHP IMHO may expand better than others, and thats a good thing in this speed range and thin skinned deer.

Nice hog in the pic above.

Should work like a charm.

A 240 Wadcutter at 1050 mv from my M29 4" dumped one in college.....not alot of speed needed

When I first started working up loads for my 4" Security Six I went with bigger is better and loaded up some 180gr. XTPs. Got lucky first try and ended up with a load/gun combo that exhibits great accuracy and never looked back. We're talkin sub 2" at 50 yards with a rest. Shot a deer that first year. Dumb shot that worked out well and found out that those 180's will travel 90% of the way thru a buck, lengthwise. Tremendous internal damage too. I wouldn't change a thing. BTW, I was using BlueDot, not quite max according to Lee.

Being said, any proper shot with a 158 should do the job and I don't think you have to use the 180's.

As for cast I have mixed thoughts. Every store bought hard cast I've tried has been exactly that, hard. Hard as a frikin rock as a matter of fact. Even using a good bullet design such as a Keith I wouldn't use them for hunting unless I really really needed the penetration. If you're casting your own you can play with the hardness and maybe get something worth using but in general I'll stick with good heavy HP's.

Chris, your impression of commercial hard cast bullets rings a bell with me.

When you read Elmer Keith's old stuff, you learn that what he called "hard" cast bullets were only hard compared to pure lead... we're talking BHN of 11-14 for his bullets. Modern hard cast bullets have BHN's upwards of 22 and higher. These really hard alloys don't deform worth [bleep] when they hit a soft-bodied animal, whereas a WW metal SWC will soften nicely on impact and do a lot of damage.

Nothing wrong with your XTP load, though.