Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints Is the 17 Fireball Dying?

I've been thinking about getting a 17 fireball recently and started looking for a gun. Unfortunately, none of the major manufacturers seem to be making them currently. Even Remington and CZ don't seem to offer the caliber in their current lineup. And brass is currently impossible to find. I don't want to buy a gun that is going to be a dinosaur. Anyone have any insight or opinions?

broper will be along shortly....

I really want one. The main reason I cannot bring myself to buy another is the actions that house them. If I'm going to get 17 in a full size action then I'm going to get a 17rem. Or the new HH looks promising since its based on the scaled down hornet actions.

I would say yes. It is unfortunate, but big green does this with its cartridges. I'm guessing bean counters didn't like the numbers and it will be a reloader's option for the future.

Remington really screwed up...why 17 ?

The 20 Vartarg (Fireball) is light years ahead of the 17

especially with the flat 40 V max bullet at nearly 3600 fps

It would be a shame if it did. Close to 17 Rem performance with less powder and noise. What's not to like? I'm not all that excited about another Hornet-based cartridge. I would prefer not to deal with the cases. The Fireball and MachIV are just plain fun.
I think I would like the VarTarg as well.

Actually, I never did see the reason for the round. As someone that has been shooting a .17 Remington since the late '70's I have quite a fondness for the cartridge. True, I wish that brass was cheaper or that I could make it out of .223 brass but it is what it is. One thing that I rarely do is shoot it full throttle. Just don't see the need. I shoot ground squirrels and prairie dogs with my .17 Remmy and the nifty little 20 grain Vmax coming out of my barrel at 4000-4100 fps is just great for my shooting. This is about what the .17 FB would do with max loads and since I am using slightly reduced loads I get long life from my brass and excellent accuracy. Plenty of punch too as I snuffed one prairie dog at over 450 yards in June of this year.


I have nothing against the .17 FB and for sure don't want to see it go away, but when you have the excellent .17 Remington already it does seem hard to justify.

Here I am, lol. I agree with JSH. I think it's a great little .17 cartridge. Makes a lot more sense to me than the .17 Hornet, better brass and it can be loaded down to the same as the Hornet. And as JSH says it can be loaded to wihin a few fps of the .17 Rem. In my opinion, a much more effidiecent cartridge. It's really to bad it wasn't more popular. I don't see anything wrong with the .20 Vartarg either but we're talking .17's here. Strange how one cartridge never gets accepted then another one comes along and everbody is all over it.

Don't know about dying, but I think it's on life support.
It'll be interesting to see if the 17HH suffers the same fate as the 17FB and the 204R (to some extent).



Good point. I have the Ackley version of the 17H and can tell you that I absolutly HATE making brass for it. Love shooting it after they're made though.
Same goes for my 17FB, so if it does indeed "die" I'll just make brass for it and keep on smiling.
I'll add that if (god forbid) I ever had to choose just one 17cal, it would be the FB/MK4.
JMO,,, nothing more

Castafly: I nearly pooped myself when I obtained the 2,012 Remington catalog and low and behold there was not a single Rifle offered in this fine caliber!
I am a BIG proponent of Remington bolt action Rifles so this omission has really harmed my regard for Big Green!
It has angered me in fact.
I have a lifetime supply of 17 Fireball brass and a wonderfully accurate Remington 700 VSF heavy barrel Varminter so I am fixed.
But I am perplexed as to if I should recommend you seek out a 17 Fireball for your needs?
I also brought up this subject myself here several months ago and the disappointment I had then has only increased!
I know several Varmint Hunters who use and like the 17 Fireball - it is an accurate and versatile cartridge.
I would not declare the 17 Remington Fireball dead as yet but it is "in jeopardy".
If you were to obtain a Rifle in 17 Remington Fireball you could always get 221 Fireball brass and form it to 17 Fireball.
I have done this for years with my 17 MachIV (the 17 Fireballs wildcat twin).
My local sport shop just sold some 17 Fireball brass to one of the CampFires members with some help/direction from me.
So there is some brass around - I am not sure if Remington is still making 17 Fireball brass or not?
Perhaps they are doing so on an intermittent basis as they do with so many calibers?
Maybe a call to Remington could ascertain that?
I did attend a gunshow yesterday in SW Montana and there was some 17 Fireball factory ammo for sale there (no brass that I saw) and one of the sport shops I visited in that town also had 17 Fireball factory ammo for sale.
Again my opinion on the Remington folks decision to cease production of Rifles in 17 Remington Fireball is that "it stinks".
AND... I am still angry over Remington forsaking Rifles in the wonderful 222 Remington cartridge many years ago!
Sheesh - come on Big Green.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG - If it bothered you that the 17 FB was not listed take a look at how many rifles Rem chambers in your beloved 204 - exactly two and they are both heavy barreled varminters. It was just recently that they chambered practically everything in it.

drover

Maybe Remington is patterning itself after the government.
Instead of marketing what folks want (smallbore, low recoil, low noise, varmint killers)
their approach seems to be........how can we screw this market up for ourselves.
They must want to have the capacity to make more AR's.

P.S. I have a cdl sf limited 17fb and it is my favorite gopher center fire.

Castafly: i am the member varmintguy helped with getting the brass (a big thanks), but that was the first brass i had found in many months of looking. While you can still find factory ammo, its pretty pricey around 30 a box. If you are going to get one keep your eyes open for brass and get in to reloading if you already are not. If you do not want to then i would suggest you look at other excellent calibers, 204 Ruger would be the first that comes to my mind.

I have an older retired machinist friend who just made me 500 more out of 223 brass for .26 each. He supplied the LC brass too.
He has lots of time and likes to do it.
He has a 20 vt and made his own annealing machine also.
Works for me.

I'm kinda surprised CZ never picked it up. It wouldn't have been difficult as they already make .17rem and .221rem rifles.
I guess we'll have to settle for the .17 hornet version when it comes out.

No kidding.
I had Pac-Nor morph a 221 into a 17FB.
Use it for everything from Ground Squirrels to the occasional Coyote.
Like I said in my earlier post. "It would be the last to go".

Get a .17 Remington.


Travis

I'd agree with ya if I still chased Coyotes, but I'm a Cat hunter (only shoot three legged Coyotes ) so the 17FB does every thing I need and then some.

I'm not saying it doesn't. But the Remington does just as well when loaded to Fireball speeds and it has been around since the 70's. Componenets aren't going anywhere.



Travis

Drover: Indeed the 204 Ruger is "beloved" by me and I was shocked at your report - so much so that I went to the "Big Green" (Remington) catalog and looked for myself.
Anyway the Remington 2,012 catalog lists 5 (five) Rifle models in caliber 204 Ruger - they are:
#1 Remington 700 SPS-V.(#84214)
#2 Remington 700 VSF....(#84341)
#3 Remington 700 VLS....(#27467)
#4 Remington 700 VTR....(#84369)
#5 Remington R-15.........(#60000)
Little solace in these 5 offerings - especially for someone intent upon a "walking Varminter type Rifle.
And alas I also looked in vain for anything in 17 Remington Fireball as well as 17 Remington and nothing was to be seen!
And nothing noticed in 222 Remington, 222 Remington Magnum, 6mm Remington, 6.5 Remington Magnum, 350 Remington Magnum etc etc etc.
Makes a Rifleman wonder - what is going on back at Big Green headquarters?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

No argument here. I have two 17Rem's. Had at least one for the last 20yrs, but like I said "for my needs the FB's plenty". Probably has as much to do with that particular rifle as any thing though.

As far as components go, I suspect Remmy will maks a batch of 17FB brass now and then. No different than what they do with 221FB and 17Rem nowdays, and lets face it, they don't chamber rifles for any of those cartriges anymore so they're all subject to brass shortages.
Fortunatly Remmy has nothing to do with the rest of the "components".

Reguardless of what Remmy does, I'll keep shooting both and make brass if I have to.
Screw Remmy.

Lovin' my 17 FB. 'Twas a MIV before i had to set the barrel back. It was my go-to fur killer for a number of years, and the greatest PD cartridge of all time, IMO. Fortunately i have enough brass for my FB and 17 Rems. to last a lifetime--

It's been around since long before I ever started shooting it in the mid 80's, and it'll be around long after I'm gone. Called the Mach IV, very slightly different. With a factory gun in 17FB, it'll have sloppy factory chamber and long leade.....I wouldn't mess with one of those things. Get a MIV you can have 0 freebore and any neck dia. Forming brass is easy. This one's always gonna be there.

Wow, I for a second I thought my buddy had joined the Campfire. He did almost the exact same thing with his CZ 221 (to 17 Mach IV though)..............exclusively to hunt Bobs. He had Dan Dowling screw the barrel.

sscoyote,

WTF are you feeding those PD's?


Travis

Yeah, they are pretty fat considering there's no grass in sight. Hey wait a minute.........

Yeah, that's it. Rancher told me to shoot those 5 or 6 as they were eating into his profits.

Your buddy sounds like a very wise man.
Maybe I'll run into him on one of my Rock Chuck poaching forays over in OR.
Tell him to watch for a handsom young stud with a Bad-Ass CZ.

CZ never did offer a factory offering and that has been a shame. Given the factory ammo or even brass support or more accurately lack thereof. Seems CZ may have done well to let this fine chambering alone.

Unless the Likes of Hornady Howa & CZ choose to breathe new life back into this caliber she is dead to all except the reloader.

I as a reloader will do my part to keep this caliber on life support in the mean time. I fear the likes of the 17HH has been one more strike agenst the 17 Fireball. Lets face it if all you wish to shoot is the 20 grain bullets from your 17 centerfire then the 17 HH satisfies those needs quite well. From my perspective the 17 FB shines her best with 25 & 30 grain bullets.

For the Remington company who did bring this caliber out with the 1 in 9 twist I am thankful. For the Remington company who chose to drop new firearms in this caliber as well as ammo I am disappointed. If you are not going to offer the caliber the promotion she deserves allow the torch to be passed on. Would love to see this caliber given a revival. Surprise me:)

Find you a .17 Remington..That Fireball thing is just a poser...

No doubt 17 Remington is more readily available. Yet as a reloader with a good stash of 17 Fireball components & firearms I seem to prefer the substantialy more efficient 17 FB. I am of the opinion that the Fireball case capacity is near Ideal for 25 & 30 grain projectiles. Nothing not to like about burning 15 to 40 percent less propellant, depending on your preferred propellant.

I am more than willing to give up 5 percent velocity or so to reap the efficiency the 17 Fireball offers. To my understanding when generally all else is equal less propellant adds up to longer barrel life.

I was surprised to see Big Green is offering the 17 Fireball ammo again. Only issue from my prospective is the 20 grain bullet choice. I am sure many will be pleased with the 20 grain offering. & others will be happy to find any source of brass.

Hunterapp: Back in 1995 I had a custom Rifle built on a Remington 700 action. I chose the 17 Mach IV cartridge for it. This Rifle has a 26 1/2" heavy stainless Shilen barrel on it with 1 in 10" twist.
The 17 Mach IV is a virtual twin of the later to come along 17 Remington Fireball - this custom Rifle has been supremely accurate from day one with the 25 grain Berger M.E.F. (Maximum Expansion Factor) bullets.
Then in 2,007 I bought a fancy Remington 700 Varmint Rifle (Varmint Synthetic Fluted) in 17 Remington Fireball. I mounted a Nikon Monarch 6.5x20 scope on it and using the same bullet, same powder (W 748), same primers (Federal 205 Match) and Remington 17 Fireball brass I was nearly able to duplicate the superb accuracy I got with the custom Rifle I had built.
I did begin barrel break-in and sight-in with the factory Remington 20 grain Accu-Tip bullets - all groupings (5 shots at 100 yards) were just at and just over .500" with this factory ammo!
So that factory 20 grain ammo IS (was!) pleasingly accurate but again my 25 grain Berger bullet handloads in the 17 Fireball were quite impressively accurate.
You are right the efficiency of the 17 Remington Fireball is impressive and worthy of consideration for the Colony Varmint shooter as well as the "fur conscious" predator Hunter.
I have killed two Coyotes in excess of 300 yards (each with one shot!) using the 17 Fireball and the 25 grain bullets.
Haven't tried any 30 grainers as yet.
And indeed I am looking to add to my "cache" of 17 Remington Fireball brass.
Good news for a change from Remington.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

1 major diffrence between your Mach IV and your Fireball is the rifling twist rate. If you happened upon the 30 grain 17 cal bullets today I highly doubt the 1 in 10 twist rate would stabilize the longer 30 grain bullet and the 25 grain V max will likely suffer as well. The 17 FB w her 1 in 9 twist does well with the longer bullets. When the 30 grain bullets were more readily available and affordable was not uncommon for guys to be taking Coyotes cleanly from either the 17 FB or 17 REM big brother out past 300 yards.

Spoke to one avid coyote hunter who relied on the 17 Remington with 30 grain Starkeys. Nagel has those dies today. His pet load in the bigger 17Rem with the 30 grain bullet was just over 3600 FPS. This is right in line with my pet load w either IMR 8208 or Benchmark in the 17 FB

You don't have a clue.

And that's from a guy who own's two 17Rem's and has been shooting them for 40+ years..

Oh but I do have a clue or I wouldn't have said what I said. Your shooting and my killing is 2 different things. I've killed numerous and I mean NUMEROUS coyotes, fox and bobcats with the .17 Rem... My brother bought a FB when they first hit the market. Just about every coyote he shot (not all) he had a runner and what I mean by runner is a couple he didn't even find and several that expired after running about a 100 yards. His rifle was loaded with Hornady 25 grainers just like mine but lacking the "assss" mine had. I had better penetration with the 17 Rem than he did with the FB...After this happening a few times he found that rifle a new home and got a 17 Rem...Now why would I want to downgrade to that lol...What advantage??? I don't want to hear the bullshiiteee about powder efficiency either...If you can't afford the powder then you don't need to be shooting anything. This is the real world I live in. I hope you get another 40 years of your "shooting". I'll stick to my killing predators and selling my pelts. Sounds like to me that you are the one that doesn't have a clue when it comes to my world...Like I said, the 17 FB is just a POSER and this is just my opinion just like you have yours...Good luck to ya....

What ever:) This has the making for a real Pizzing contest. Sounds like in the case of your brothers 17 FB either the accuracy of the shooter, firearm or just the load choice in question was the issue at hand. Otherwise the shot choice was was either poorly chosen or at least placed poorly. Curious how your brothers experiences changed after stepping up to the 17 Remington?

Like to say I am sorry yet I call BS and contend that in the right hands at 300 yards the 17 FB will do anything the 17 REM will do at 350 yards. If you prefer the big brother more power to you. I prefer the 17 Fireball and do not feel handicapped in any noteworthy way. Neither of us are wrong to have our preferences. From here Ill just smile and say I am truly curious what the real core issue was with your brothers unfortunate experience. Ill rest confident the chambering choice was not the core issue Though I can't rule out workmanship on the barrel!

There is a point of diminishing returns and I have been very satisfied setteling With the little brother of the 17 Rem / 17 Fireball.

Shoot straight:)

I kill coyotes w/o much fuss to 300yds with factory loaded 25gr HP's in the .17 Hornet. I'd say the brother needs a shooting lesson...........

Lol...Now you're the one that doesn't have a clue.




You know Hunterapp I also still smile about this myself. He bought the FB in either 2007 or 2008. Don't really remember but it was it was one of the first Fireball's to hit this end of the state. We done a little load development for it but not much. All we tried was the 25 grain Hornady even though the word was that the FB was more suitable for the 20 grain load. Our chances of calling in a coyote in this area is the same as calling in a fox so 20 grainers was a no go. The accuracy of the FB was with the load we settled on seemed to be moa @ 100. Didn't notice any keyholes from my memory but still not as tight as the 17 Rem I have....Anyway we didn't really get down to the heart of the matter. He called me one day and said I sold my FB and picked up a 17 Rem and do you think we can get it sighted in before dark so we can go coyote hunting tonight? It could have been the barrel, really don't know. I still wonder about that rifle to this day. You know as well as I do once you get a bad taste for something it's damn near impossible to take another bite. Like I said earlier. That was my experience with the FB and my last. I'm sure all FB's are not jinxed as that one was whatever the problem. I'll stick with my 17 Rem, (the hand of God) because my rifle hits with authority and dead is dead. Happy hunting and be SAFE!

Also to all 17 centerfire shooters. There is a new member on here "ct17" that is making the new old Kindler Gold's. 17 shooters no matter what flavor you shoot our bullet choice is VERY limited these days. I'm thinking we should give him a chance and our support.

I put his number in my phone and will get some 30's from him when my rifle is finished. 17-22/250

I wouldn't bother ordering more than 3-400.

You don't have to load it to 5000 fps.

Why go 17 22/250? The 17/204 is a beautiful thing with the 30 gr. bullets and kills with plenty of authority. Seems anything around 4000 fps is like a bolt of lightening on a coyote, according to the 400+ that I've killed with mine.
I've got 200 of Montana's bullets. Hoping to get a chance to do some load development next weekend with them.

I don't see anything wrong with a .17 on any case in the .222's family, however, if a guy has a .308 bolt face instead, and if the cost of .17/204 dies are roughly the same as .17x.22-250, why not? Or .. if a guy just wants to experiment, why not? Logic and practical are not attributes any self respecting gun loony requires. It starts with "I wonder" or "what if" and ends with "holy crap that was cool!" ... or "oops". Oops is ok, too: we often learn more from failure than from success.

Tom

Trying to decide whether I want a 17 Hornet or take a 221 Fireball and turn it into a 17FB or just find a 17 Remington and then it can be loaded down to levels that match either or can run it full throttle and beat both of the smaller cartridges.

Fireball seems like a neat little round, burns less fuel than the Remington version but gets close to its velocities.

well guys have already been there done that and it's been found that a .17 caliber bullet can't be pushed much faster from a 250 case then it can out of a .222 case. But each his own, it's not my money.

I like the Fireball. I'd never shot a centerfire that seemingly didn't recoil, even .22 Hornet. The crosshairs just sat there while there was simultaneously a big noise and squirrel parts leaving in several directions at once.

However ... mine did not magazine feed very well and despite the action being a FB action with the plunger / extractor / etc clocked for the short FB case instead of .222 length case, it would still dump the empties in the action instead of beyond it. I think in a 700 it would be a good candidate for a Sako / M-16 extractor conversion.

As you can imagine the 17 hornet is very similar in terms of no recoil. I prefer the 17 FB for 2 reasons, 1st I like recessed Rim as opposed to the protruding rim of the Hornet case. 2nd I feel the case capacity is as near Ideal as one may hope for with the 25 & 30 grain bullets. My 2 Rem 700's feed fine and my CZ 527 feeds great.

Now for my CZ 527 in 17 Hornet I do have to admit Case feeding issues have come up. Thus my decided preference for the 17 FB.

never had a feeding issue with the whore-gnat in the ruger rotary mags.......

I don't plan on loading the 17 22/250 hot, I just needed a platform that would work thru a Savage 99.

You already know the answer.....

I do FG. Just trying to find away to make the answer happen!!

Don't suppose there is any way we could nudge Remington into transferring all 17 FB ammo production over to Hornady? Great cartridge IMHO. Never regretted acquiring one of my 17 fireballs. My preferred bullets are no longer available. Seems the plastic tip stuff has taken over. Thankfully I likely have enough stock to last a few generations.