Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Same loads, but now ejector marks?

BobNH your experience is interesting BUT it also 6 years old when the WSMs were quite new. Perhaps, just perhaps, the rifles has short throats and or tight bores. I would bet the ranch, that Federal pressure tested those loads in SAAMI speced chambers with many, many rounds. You did not mention if you did chamber casts and/or slugged the bores to see if all dimensions were "on spec".

Jorgel, glad you have had no problems. Why anyone would full length size belted brass every time (I mean REALLY F.L. size, shelholder bumping over on the die) is a complete mystery. Just guessing that your rifles are not early bolt guns built for the India/Africa trade by H&H etc.

Given the real reason for the belt, to provide headspacing in rifles with undersized cartridges in oversized chambers (Because the conditions and ammo back then as well as the climate created the need and there was no reloading).

Again, once the brass is fitted to the chamber, be it a 224 Weatherby or a 465 H&H, there is no reason to FL every time and EVERY reloading manual will tell you that REAL FL sizing works the brass and is almost never necessary.

As for the pole that smokes, he is just here to create a climate of bad manners and insults that leads otherwise civil people label others they have never met as "IDIOTS".

Full length size away, use loads that exceed published data, don't bother reading the gunsmithing books on problem analysis and solving, believe you know more than people who do all this stuff for a living. I wish you well and hope you are never at a benchrest or 4 position match next to me.

To repeat, this is not new info invented by this poster. The "expertise" of a few people with some experience does not trump decades of work done by real experts in firearms, ammunition, powder, bullets or the experience of hunters who have killed 1000s more head of game than any of us will see in our lifetimes. Absent the chance to duplicate their experience and contrary to "old smoky" , you can still learn a lot by reading and spending time with folks who send 1000s of round down range like benchresters and F Class shooters.

IMHO, I think the subject has been covered. When the IP says the stall speed is 60 knots and you come on final at 50, you'll never make the apron.

I haven't read this whole thing so maybe someone has already posted this. Could be thick case necks but I've never seen that in factory rifles. Could be the case's need trimming. Don't drop a bullet into the case, get out you micrometer and measure them. If the cases are to long, the mouth could be just entering the lands and pinching the bullet. Long throating will do little more that allow you to seat the bullet out farther. It will give a bit more case capacity but the max pressure will stay the same. I did that on a 7 Rem Mag years ago. to do it, make sure what your going to do will still work thru your magazine well. There is another thing it could be and that is the bullet going into the lands when you close the bolt. Next time before you shoot a round, chamber it and pull it right bask out. Look for little shiny marks at the ogive. If they are there, your forcing the bullet into the lands. That should not cause the pressure you have but combine it with cases to long and you have a problem.

If your using FL dies to neck size, only do that until the case rubs going into the chamber. You'll see some brass rubbed off on the bolt face and you'll feel it rub. At that point, start adjusting the die down 1/8th turn at a time until the case will chamber with no effort at all. Then you'll be partical resizing and the case will head space on the shoulder rather than the rim. If you had a headspace problem it can usually be seen in the primer, it'll back out of the pocket a bit. partical resizing will fix that. it will also eliminate the bright ring just in front of the belt. That will show up after a few firings and is caused by a sloppy chamber, belted cases are famous for that. You see that ring, throw the case away, it'd gonna separate the case right there very soon. By neck sizing till the case won't chamber any more, you'll keep the case from stretching there. By then readjusting the die down ever so little you will move the shoulder back just barely so the case will no longer rub or stretch.

True.

I knew you were FOS when you wrote that.



This was my original point in my first post on this thread, I'm surprised that such an expert as yourself missed it. When you proclaimed a factory load to be "obviously safe" you neglected to take into account that which you posted above. All rifles are different, what's safe in one isn't necessarily safe in another, even if it's a factory load.

Do you dispute that?

BTW, my experience with Federal Premium ammo in the 7 WSM was that it was the only factory ammo. that resulted in unsafe pressures in the rifle. All other factory ammo. as well as book max. handloads showed no pressure signs and were within book velocities. This means it was the federal ammo., not an off-spec throat or tight bore. "Perhaps, just perhaps" factory ammo. can't be proclaimed "safe" just because it comes from a factory. And perhaps Federal produced some Premium ammo. that caused unsafe pressures in more rifles than it should have.



You dolt. Show me where I advocated full-length sizing for any case, belted or non-belted. Show me where I advocated the use of loads that exceed published data.

And just because you read books on gunsmithing, that doesn't mean you're a gunsmith. I know I'm not, but you seem to think reading the books makes you one.

And last but not least, I don't "believe I know more than people who do all this stuff for a living," and you'll never see me arguing with people who do this stuff for a living.

I'm just 100 % certain that you're not one of those people. Even though you try to come off as one.

Smoky, why are you such a nasty and hostile person ?

DonF (above) added some new thoughts in an adult manner, while all you do is attack, attack attack. One is left to wonder if you act this way in FTF conversations or this is just your Internet persona ? My guess the latter as by now you would have crossed the wrong person, as CO has not been 100% "Californicated".

If you don't think anyone can learn valuable information by reading, without "doing it" than you are totally uninformed and your water supply is probably septic tank.

You ARE disagreeing with people who do it for a living as (DUH) I am using their information (as stated) to attempt to provide guidance to the OP.

I never said YOU advocated FL sizing anything. My comment was directed to Jorge1, not you. So not only did you not read the post but you had to name call (again), which added a lot to your credibility.

This thread is going no where fast, so you get in the last word and let it fade away.

Larry, let me lay it out for you. I thought your first post on this thread was pretty good advice. Exceeding book loads, exceeding book velocities, and getting ejector marks is not a good long-term proposition IMO. I didn�t question any of that.

But, where you and I differ is that I�m not going to belittle and insult a guy if he decides not to take my advice. Even though I may not personally want to exceed book loads or velocities, if another guy wants to do it, I�m not going to belittle him. If a guy asks for advice, I give it, and if he decides to ignore it, I�m OK with that--it doesn�t bother me. It apparently bothers you, based on your insulting response to the OP quoted below.

The more I learn, the more I understand that there�s very seldom only one way to do things and my way is not the only �right� way out there. I like to think of it as wisdom gained with age. You appear to believe you�ve got a lock on the right way to do things. You apparently have knowledge accumulated with age but lack the wisdom to understand the limits of your knowledge.

As far as your comments on me being insulting, I�m guilty as charged. But if you were to review my posts on this forum you�d see that the number of people I interact with in that manner is less than you can count on one hand, and they all have something in common with you. And if you go back and read the thread, you�ll see that I didn�t post a comment until you posted this:



So I answered one insult with another.

And to answer your question, if you said the same crap you say on this forum in person (like the quote above), my answer would be the same and there�s not one damn thing you�d do about it.

The WSMs did not have a throat per SAAMI spec. Had a 270 WSM which I loaded down 2 grains below max to start and the primer evaporated on the first shot. That WSM did not shoot above 270 Win velocities until I had a gunsmith put a throat in it. A tight chamber may well be possible if the reamer were at the end of its life.

What's up, you old bitch? Back for some more abuse? How many identities is this now, Larry?

This is the OP.
I've been away elk hunting since Wednesday and got back yesterday so I wasn't able to keep up the with the responses as they were posted.

First, thanks for taking the time to answer.

I've read through the posts and, just to play it safe, will trash this old brass and work something up with Retumbo. I'll neck size with a light shoulder bump.

Just for curiosity's sake, I'm going to FL size and trim and shoot the old load of 72.5 H1000 and see if the marks go away or if they will still be there because the brass lost its elasticity.

And yes, I always wear my glasses at the gun range!

The A-Square manual has a very interesting section dealing with pressures rising as cases are used multiple times without annealing. Rather than trying to summarize it here, I will just offer it up as a worthwhile read.