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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450 |
I LOVE Utah and yes I OC, EVERY day. This will be me tomorrow am after I walk out of my local elementary school where I vote. Alan ....Alan, my guess is that even in Utah if you go into an elementary school and polling place on election day armed, you'll be walking out in handcuffs. Of course, I could be wrong. If you have an "enhanced" carry permit in MS, you can
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,916 Likes: 51
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,916 Likes: 51 |
If you have an "enhanced" carry permit in MS, you can
No such thing in Florida. When I was in New York, I came across lots of folks who had what amounted to an enhanced permit, i.e., a deputy sheriff badge. They weren't salaried by the Sheriff's Office and performed no duties, but knew people in the department willing to deputize them just so they could carry anywhere they wanted and didn't have to worry about the silly restrictions placed on CCW permits by the various and sundry issuing authorities throughout the state. In my opinion, that should be the standard concealed carry license, and there shouldn't be any need for an enhanced one, since they have already checked you out before issuing the permit anyway.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450 |
If you have an "enhanced" carry permit in MS, you can
No such thing in Florida. When I was in New York, I came across lots of folks who had what amounted to an enhanced permit, i.e., a deputy sheriff badge. They weren't salaried by the Sheriff's Office and performed no duties, but knew people in the department willing to deputize them just so they could carry anywhere they wanted and didn't have to worry about the silly restrictions placed on CCW permits by the various and sundry issuing authorities throughout the state. In my opinion, that should be the standard concealed carry license, and there shouldn't be any need for an enhanced one, since they have already checked you out before issuing the permit anyway. They just passed the law a little over a year ago to obtain a reg permit in MS, all you have to do is fill out paperwork, pay the fee, and get fingerprinted....no class, no qualifications the "enhanced permit" is issued once you pay to take a class and qualify at a range The enhancement lets you carry EVERYWHERE except police stations and federal places like post offices and airports you can carry at schools, bars, parks, churches, polling places, stadiums, ect ect
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 651
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 651 |
I only open carry around the farm or in country where people are few and far between. I don't think OC is a wise option otherwise. I can. For example, there are arsonous riots going on, and heading your way. You want them to see that folks in your neighborhood are prepared to repel them, if need be. Also, you and your family are moving from your old house in Miami to your new house in Tallahassee, and in the truck you have your fifty thousand dollar firearms collection, and fifty thousand dollars worth of silver and gold. At gas stops and such, it seems to me you might want to send the signal, when you all dismount, that you folks are prepared to repel carjack attempts. Avoid the trouble before it happens that way. I see your point, but, the training I have in CC is unambiguous in teaching that I'm better off if the carjacker, robber, etc ... doesn't know I'm armed until I'VE MADE THE DECISION to make it known (IE... By drawing and firing). Not saying that's a golden rule ---- but it's what I've been taught.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,291 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,291 Likes: 1 |
I LOVE Utah and yes I OC, EVERY day. This will be me tomorrow am after I walk out of my local elementary school where I vote. Alan ....Alan, my guess is that even in Utah if you go into an elementary school and polling place on election day armed, you'll be walking out in handcuffs. Of course, I could be wrong. Literally standing next to UHP about to vote in elementary school RIGHT NOW!!! Alan
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
Cite your source. Anecdotal evidence (talking to a few LEOs) means about as much as what you think (or even IF you think) - nothing. Direct me to a scientifically conducted survey of LEOs working in the inner cities asking them about their perception of an armed, law abiding citizenry. I'd like to read it and examine their survey instrument and the methodology of the application of the instrument. Additionally, I'd be very interested in the conclusions of the PhD(s) who conducted the survey. Otherwise, as Travis put it; how the [bleep] would you know what an LEO thinks? You are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to my opinion which is based on my experience. I will admit that the politicians are more of the problem than the police but the police do after all work for the politicians.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,813 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,813 Likes: 2 |
There has been more than one case where a person was attacked and killed because they were open carrying. Criminals actually targeted these citizens! Criminals are not impressed by seeing some one with a gun on their hip. They practice in prison learning to disarm people and get pretty good at it. Sure open carry will scare old ladies and liberals. Anyone who carries a firearm concealed or opened carry, firearm retention is a real concern! If you think otherwise you are delusional. Most are not trained, physically capable, or aware to prevent such a premeditated attack. Where do you think a confrontation takes place at? Its usually fairly close (feet), in low light conditions.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,084
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
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I like it
But I like CCW to
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487 |
Literally standing next to UHP about to vote in elementary school RIGHT NOW!!!
Alan
.....well I can certainly see why you'd love Utah! :-)
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022 |
You are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to my opinion which is based on my experience. I will admit that the politicians are more of the problem than the police but the police do after all work for the politicians. In other words, you are basing your opinion on anecdotal evidence. How many LEOs do you know? How many of them expressed reservations about having law abiding citizens armed?
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,291 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,291 Likes: 1 |
Literally standing next to UHP about to vote in elementary school RIGHT NOW!!!
Alan
.....well I can certainly see why you'd love Utah! :-) I'm not in Kansas...... Took this pic right after I exited the polls in front of our local elem school. My new "I voted" sticker on my holster. On another note, I truly appreciate the willingness of many here to verbally suport us who choose to OC, our free agency to do so; even if they feel otherwise. Within days of my son starting both elem as well as Jr High, I walked in to the principals office and introduced myself and my 1911 to give them headups that they would see me and mine frequently. Has never been an issue. Alan
Last edited by GSSP; 11/07/12.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 556
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 556 |
There has been more than one case where a person was attacked and killed because they were open carrying. Just for the record, would you be kind enough to cite three examples where this happened to a private citizen?
Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid. --John Wayne
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487 |
Took this pic right after I exited the polls in front of our local elem school. My new "I voted" sticker on my holster. On another note, I truly appreciate the willingness of many here to verbally suport us who choose to OC, our free agency to do so; even if they feel otherwise. Within days of my son starting both elem as well as Jr High, I walked in to the principals office and introduced myself and my 1911 to give them headups that they would see me and mine frequently. Has never been an issue. ....well, I'm impressed, Alan. .....do many businesses post in Utah? Can you carry in bars, etc.? If you're Mormon, it's a moot point but I've heard that the % on non-LDS residents in Utah has increased substantially.
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 70 |
Read the second amendment. Its our right! CHL? BULLS###, another tab kept on us...
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,291 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,291 Likes: 1 |
Took this pic right after I exited the polls in front of our local elem school. My new "I voted" sticker on my holster. On another note, I truly appreciate the willingness of many here to verbally suport us who choose to OC, our free agency to do so; even if they feel otherwise. Within days of my son starting both elem as well as Jr High, I walked in to the principals office and introduced myself and my 1911 to give them headups that they would see me and mine frequently. Has never been an issue. ....well, I'm impressed, Alan. .....do many businesses post in Utah? Can you carry in bars, etc.? If you're Mormon, it's a moot point but I've heard that the % on non-LDS residents in Utah has increased substantially. About the only business's that I see posted are the shopping malls and the theaters. Even if caught OC'ing or CC'ing, if asked to leave and refusing, it's a trespass charge, not a firearm charge. And, for stated reason's, I don't go into bars so couldn't comment on them. Hey, we had 29% vote for Obama yesterday. Alan
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022 |
Were I free to choose, I'd carry concealed most of the time. Open carry would be reserved exclusively for instances where an open show of preparedness would seem advantageous. When is a show of preparedness not advantageous?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,916 Likes: 51
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,916 Likes: 51 |
Were I free to choose, I'd carry concealed most of the time. Open carry would be reserved exclusively for instances where an open show of preparedness would seem advantageous. When is a show of preparedness not advantageous? True. I should have said "particularly advantageous."
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,513 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,513 Likes: 1 |
i see no reason to carry a gun openly. why would one want to give away any advantage should a dangerous situation develop? why become the first target? just doesn't make any sense to me. ymmv.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022 |
I'm all for non-LEOs carrying in what ever manner they choose, as long as it's legal. As a Deputy in Texas, I went to the DPS Headquarters and received the training to become a CC instructor. I paid for it all on my dime. I believe strongly in a person's right to protect themselves with the most efficient, effective means reasonably possible.
With that said, I believe a non-LEO should really stick to carrying concealed, and pull the firearm out if needed. LEOs carry open for the most part. There is a social stigma against shooting an LEO. Whether you agree with me or not is immaterial. Bad guys know if they shoot a LEO their days of freedom, even life, are going to be short and violent. A dead LEO receives much more, much much more investigative manpower, time and intensity than the killing of a non-LEO. It's not fair, but, it's the truth. Additionally, killing a LEO or Firefighter in the line of duty carries the Death Penalty in most states.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,916 Likes: 51
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,916 Likes: 51 |
A dead LEO receives much more, much much more investigative manpower, time and intensity than the killing of a non-LEO. It's not fair, but, it's the truth. If I had asserted that, I'd have been hit with a barrage of angry denials from the cops of the Fire.
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