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Why do liberals always cry for 'bipartisanship' when they're in power, but fight against it in the nastiest way possible when they're in opposition? Power
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Campfire Outfitter
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It's the perfect storm for surveyors.
Nobody buying, building, or selling.
And any of those shovel ready goobermint jobs, well, lets just say that a straight white male with no minority preference points has little chance on those.
Truer words were never... That minority bullschit is about to make me racist, our own company has to outsource surveying work to minority owned businesses in order to qualify for most public funded projects. Meanwhile I am laying off people in my department and cutting back hours. All because of a government mandate requiring the perpetuation of racism. 
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Campfire Ranger
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They'll kick the can down the road another 3 or 6 months.
Then both parties will fight to take credit for saving us from the abyss.
Nothing meaningful will be accomplished, nothing will change except the fact that we will go deeper and deeper in debt.
[bleep] 'em all.
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
Some of us have already went through the 'starved out' process with the construction bust...
It's the perfect storm for surveyors. Nobody buying, building, or selling. And any of those shovel ready goobermint jobs, well, lets just say that a straight white male with no minority preference points has little chance on those. Go back to being a gay Greek Spartan. At one time you had that going for ya. 
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Some of us have already went through the 'starved out' process with the construction bust...
It's the perfect storm for surveyors. Nobody buying, building, or selling. And any of those shovel ready goobermint jobs, well, lets just say that a straight white male with no minority preference points has little chance on those. Add in an unwillingness to sell my soul to the Devil to join a union...
This is a shooting forum, there is no place here for logic.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Some of us have already went through the 'starved out' process with the construction bust...
It's the perfect storm for surveyors. Nobody buying, building, or selling. And any of those shovel ready goobermint jobs, well, lets just say that a straight white male with no minority preference points has little chance on those. Go back to being a gay Greek Spartan. At one time you had that going for ya. You got to admit, I look good. ![[Linked Image]](http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n23/jlcpls/forums/7copy.jpg)
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Posts: 12,806
Campfire Outfitter
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.... Actually the Federal government is already bankrupt. They owe $16 trillion dollars and they have annual revenue of about $1.6 trillion. So they owe ten times what they earn annually. Any corporation or business would have declared bankruptcy a long time ago. Fourty percent (40%) of the Federal budget goes to paying the interest on the debt. Not paying on the principal mind you. Just to pay the interest. The debt keeps growing and the interest payments keep growing.
The truth is that we have to raise taxes on everyone and drastically lower expenditures so that we can start paying down the principal of the debt. If we don't do that then eventually the government will have to choose between paying interest and paying for essential programs. When they choose not to pay the interest then nobody will loan them any more money and they will be bankrupt.
I wonder about this. The Federal Reserve is already buying 70% of US Gov't bonds. What is to stop them from buying 100% of the Federal debt? They could keep this fiction going on for a long time.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Ranger
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Repubs need to get serious about spending cuts. That's the premise of my post. That's one of the reasons I was willing to support Romney. He didn't need the Presidency, but he wanted it. And he was a businessman - not some puppet. The government better get serious, both sides, about trimming their system, not finding more ways to sustain it. And good people will get hurt. Hell they are already hurt. I'm hurting, friends are hurting, family is hurting. But those hard choices need to be for everyone - not just the people, and as of yet, the government hasn't proved they are willing as a unit to make a sacrifice - unless its us on an alter. Forgive the Old Testament innuendo. wasn't Romney telling the country that he'd balance the budget in 8 years? That isn't serious about spending cuts in my book - that is 7 years of deficit spending. (and telling me Obama would be worse is not an acceptable answer to this premise)
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Outfitter
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wasn't Romney telling the country that he'd balance the budget in 8 years?
That isn't serious about spending cuts in my book - that is 7 years of deficit spending. (and telling me Obama would be worse is not an acceptable answer to this premise)
To balance the budget, you'd have to eliminate ALL SS, Medicare & Medicaid spending. Even if you cut the Federal agencies 100%, we'd still have a deficit.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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wasn't Romney telling the country that he'd balance the budget in 8 years?
That isn't serious about spending cuts in my book - that is 7 years of deficit spending. (and telling me Obama would be worse is not an acceptable answer to this premise)
I'm not a big business man, nor a financial expert. I can only see things through my limited experience and that includes that continuing debt and extravagant luxuries don't last - and that is what the government is doing. Hell, I don't care if Romney scuttled businesses to make a profit. Frankly, the best computer security expert I ever knew spent his college years hacking like hell. And the best trauma paramedic I knew (real well in fact) spent a number of years in the military killing people, so if Romney offered up a business solution, I trust him more than �bama. But we have what we have, and no one in the government looks like the long term even exists, let alone being on the radar.
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I'd like to see some numbers that put that in perspective
at any rate, the whole idea of "don't compromise" is just a platform position but it doesn't address the core issue
At the end of the day we're still on a path to see 20T in debt (or more) - it doesn't really matter if it happens in 2015 or 2017.
We're going to have to get spending in line with revenues.
Getting serious about it is going to mean some serious pain - and Romney being elected was like putting a band-aid on a compound fracture.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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Getting serious about it is going to mean some serious pain - and Romney being elected was like putting a band-aid on a compound fracture.
And ... leaving Hussein in charge is like amputating the limb rather than fix it.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'd like to see some numbers that put that in perspective
Basically, there is only one solution - unimaginable poverty in the USA.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No one can balance a budget on a depleting treasury. The production of wealth and profit in an economy produces an increasing treasury... that means business profitability and jobs, you can either tax a smaller profit more or tax a larger profit less to get to the same point... continuing to eat bigger pieces of a dwindling pie will have everyone starving eventually.
Kent
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The only reason to call it a fiscal cliff is to make people think that what will happen is terrible. The truth is that what will happen has to happen or the Feredral government will go bankrupt. Actually the Federal government is already bankrupt. They owe $16 trillion dollars and they have annual revenue of about $1.6 trillion. So they owe ten times what they earn annually. Any corporation or business would have declared bankruptcy a long time ago. Fourty percent (40%) of the Federal budget goes to paying the interest on the debt. Not paying on the principal mind you. Just to pay the interest. The debt keeps growing and the interest payments keep growing.
The truth is that we have to raise taxes on everyone and drastically lower expenditures so that we can start paying down the principal of the debt. If we don't do that then eventually the government will have to choose between paying interest and paying for essential programs. When they choose not to pay the interest then nobody will loan them any more money and they will be bankrupt. The value of U.S. currency will plummet and we won't be able to buy any foriegn products. When the world's largest consumer nation stops buying imported products because they are too expensive our trading partners go bankrupt because they are in the same situation as we are and they depend on cointinuing U.S. buying to keep their economies going. A world-wide depression will ensue that will make the 1930s look mild by comparison.
So it's not a fiscal cliff. It's what has to happen in order to survive financially. But I bet the sleezy politicians will come up with some gimmick to prolong the inevitable and avoid doing what has to be done from occuring automatically. They will claim it as a victory for bi-partisan compromise when actually they just continue to screw the Amercian public.
Actually they don't have to do anything. The tax increases (actually elimination of tax cuts) and reduction in expenditures will happen automatically if they do nothing and they can blame the other party. So the best thing that can happen is for grid-lock to continue.
KC
I agree except that we don't necessarily have to start paying on the principal - we just have to stop borrowing. If Congress was to balance the budget, we could let inflation take care of the principal over the next two or three generations. You did nail the problem, especially about how much we spend on interest and how that is crippling.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Getting serious about it is going to mean some serious pain - and Romney being elected was like putting a band-aid on a compound fracture.
And ... leaving Hussein in charge is like amputating the limb rather than fix it. either way we had two guys telling us they plan on 4 more years of deficit spending against the largest deficit we've ever had when we can least afford it. Sure, Romney probably would have been less overall but significantly different? How much do you want to believe after watching the last 12 years unfold?
Last edited by KFWA; 11/12/12.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Not trying to highjack the thread or even offer an argument but I have a question: What exactly would compromise on this issue look like?
I'm not sure that there is that much common ground to be had. One side wants higher revenue and the other wants to keep taxes stable or even reduce them while slashing spending.
Where is a possible compromise position to be had?
Will
Smellin' a lot of 'if' coming off this plan.
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Campfire Ranger
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If Romney could have decreased regulatory restrictions on businesses that 'produce' product for profit, which would increase service industries, increasing wealth in the economy. Then the only question would be haw fast can we build wealth and reverse spending deficits.
Kent
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Where is a possible compromise position to be had?
Will There's not... one side wants to reduce wealth and increase spending... the other at least states it wants to increase wealth and reduce spending. Kent
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Campfire Ranger
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Fiscal Year 2012 Budget Revenue:
For the Fiscal Year 2012 Budget, the U.S. Federal government received $2.469 trillion in revenue. Income taxes contributed 47.2%, Social Security and Medicare taxes were 31.4%, corporate taxes were 9.6%, and the remaining 11.8% was to come from excise taxes, estate taxes and other miscellaneous sources. Here's the actual breakdown of tax amounts:
Income - $1.165 trillion.
Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes - $775 billion.
Corporate - $237 billion.
All other - $292 billion.
FY 2012 Budget Spending:
Spending came in at $3.793 trillion, more than the $3.7 trillion originally budgeted. Over half went towards Mandatory programs, such as Social Security, Medicare and Military Retirement programs. These expenditures are mandated by law, and cannot be changed without an act from Congress. $225 billion, or 5.9% of spending, was budgeted for interest payments on the national debt.
FY 2012 Mandatory Spending:
Mandatory spending was budgeted at $2.252 trillion, or 56% of the U.S. Federal budget. (now re-read this - the U.S. Federal government received $2.469 trillion in revenue.)
It included Social Security ($773 billion), and Medicare and Medicaid ($733 billion combined). Proposals enacted under the Economic Stimulus Act added $35 billion.(Source: U.S. Office of Management and Budget, FY 2013 Budget Summary Table S-5)
Last edited by KFWA; 11/12/12.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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