Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Pointer vs. Lab?

Not really but we can agree to disagree. Labs are not natural Pointers. Technically speaking you can train any dog to point.

Also when I say they can't run with other pointers, I am not really talking about a leggy dog that runs big. They can't run with close working dogs. Sorta like me, I am never running a Marathon at 6'4" 265lb. Could I? Sure but why beat up my body when I don't have the body type for that kind of thing.

The biggest part of bird hunting to me is watching a well trained dog work cover and birds. Watching a Pointing lap work to me is like watching a Soap Opera. I AIN'T DOING IT!

If I break it down, I would say the dog would be used 70% waterfowl and 30% upland. I have toyed with idea of finding a chesapeak but I have this haunting memory of my old neighbor in Kodiak. He had one that would always get in our trash. He said "I call them 2x4 dogs. They are so stupid you need to beat em' with a 2x4. Plus the F****** wont hunt". Naturaly this guy was a real peice of trash but that dog was the Forest Gump of dogs. Thats really my only experience with them. I think Im leaning Long haired pointer right now. If I can find one. If I was looking for a sled dog I could be choosing from 500 within a day. Options are limited. Its a waiting game now...

Freezerfiller

I can tell you right now 100% that if you buy a chessie from a reputable breeder of huinting dogs and properly train he or she you will love the breed. They are hearty, hardworking, loyal, love to hunt, and depended on how you socialize them great with other people, kids, and dogs. Don't buy into the the BS of the Chessie's of long ago (Market Hunters). Like any other breed when you get a puppy its genes are already in place, now its up to you on how you will allow your dog to act, and how well or bad it will hunt.

You can't blame your neighbors dog behavior on the dog, its the owner that failed in that equation.

You are simply wrong. Pointing Lab owners aren't looking to send their dogs to the Grand National. There's really no difference in hunting a Lab as a flusher or a pointer except for what the dog does when he scents a bird.

Lab is probably your best bet then.
What does your upland hunting look like? Prairie or thick stuff?
Can you see your dog if he is 60-100 yards away from you?
I love hunting pointing dogs, but a good close working lab is magic in heavy cover.

Personally I think if your mix is 70/30 waterfowl over upland I'd be looking at a retriever of some type and do some real training on upland, quartering and hupping(sitting and waitng for you on comand) otherwise you will get alot of out of range flushes especially on running birds like pheasant.

When you compromise you have to give up something, a retriever with out a tail will be slower and less agile in the water, most retrievers in the upland don't have the nose of of a spaniel or pointer. A number of times I helped retriever owners find cripples in the grass after the tide went out that their retrievers couldn't find. Widgeon will swim with just the tip of there bill out of the water if it's glass calm you can see the V if there is the slightest ripple they are invisible. After tide is out you will find them burried in the grass or hidden in a little tidal drain.

When you go for a do all dog you have to give up on something. I have some cripples out swim my pointer, rarly happend with a retriever when we beach hunt(no boat), used to hunt bluebills on Lake Michigan from beach blinds with a big yellow lab, out here with an AWS. In the upland with a retriever you give up nose and bird finding abillity.

As toltecgriz said a pointing lab will "never get to the nationals" and will never be the upland dog like a spaniel or pointer. Jack Of All Trades, Master Of None.

Freezerfiller,

My first 'hunting' dog was a German Shorthaired Pointer. I raised him from a pup, and wanted a dog that would do double duty on upland birds and waterfowl. He was very indifferent about water work and retrieving, but I finally got him to do it with force retrieving training.

One day, I was hunting with a buddy, weather was cold, and we jumped some ducks off of the North Platte River in Wyoming. We shot two, and I sent the GSP to retrieve. He swam out, retrieved the first, and I sent him for the second. He picked it up, swam to the opposite bank, and proceeded to eat it!! I was sorely tempted to shoot him right there, I was so mad. Once home, I put a Free to Good Home ad in the paper and found a new home for him.

Fast forward to the past 14 years- I had the good fortune to raise a pointing Lab from a pup- her sire was Gumbo, one of the alltime great PL's. On many occasions, we would duck hunt in the morning, and pheasant hunt in the afternoon. Her points were solid, and great fun to hunt over. Her desire to hunt was incredibly strong.

If you are looking for a versatile dog, it would be very hard to beat a Lab.

The two labs I have had I got when I was still very young. I am 32 now and I got my last lab when I was 20. I am ready to put the work in now. There is a lot more to training a good gun dog than I realized when I was younger. By the time I started researching it my dogs were to old to be tought new styles of hunting. My Dad who lives down in Soldotna, Ak. Hunts with a chesapeak so I know they are good dogs. Its just one of those things. Like when you get really sick from Vodka you never want it again. Thats my experience with Chesapeaks. Im not meaning to offend anyone who loves them.

A few posts back a guy asked me if the area is thick or prarie? It is very thick and the upland birds we hunt are spruce grouse and willow ptarmigan. Both tend to inhabit the thickets where your range of view is almost always under 50yards.Neither of these birds are runners. They will stay in place until you are very close before flushing. I could never get my labs to stay without flushing them up until I was close enough. There has been 500 times I have missed birds because my dogs wouldnt hang back when they picked up a scent. Thats my real case for needing a pointer. Where we duck/goose hunt is usually on rivers with a fairly swift current.

Side note- Both my labs had hip dysplasia. I put one down about a year ago and thee other is hanging by a thread. It devistaed my wife and 5yo daughter. She loves our dogs but doesnt want another lab because of the hip problems. I have her convinced that pointers dont have those problems. Even though I know some do.

Sounds like your pretty set on a pointing dog, now it's time to start looking for a breeder that has alot of experience with water work. I'd stick with heavy coated wirehairs or grifs. A pointing lab might just work for you. You don't need a big running dog and your birds hold well in heavy cover.

labs4rescue.com enough said!

Good grief, a rescue dog is the last thing you need if you're looking for a quality hunting dog. There is absolutely nothing that a pointing lab can accomplish in the field that a flushing lab won't. Why continue to screw up the breed by perpetuating the practice of breeding them to point. Get a lab or a chessie (70-30 waterfowl makes the choice easy) from a good breeder and try to get a pup from a repeat breeding that has produced some pups that are now MH or hold field trial titles. Call as many breeders as you can find on the internet and then call some more, tell them what you want/expect of the dog. You will come away with a few that are at the top of the heap, go with the one that produces pups that have the look that you like. Lot of time and phone calls, but it will pay big when you get a pup that is exactly what you want/need.

It is hard for me to imagine someone seriously duckhunting SC AK and getting a 70/30 split. Our duck seaon starts Sept 1 and ends with the first storm, often no more than a couple weeks later. There are spots and saltwater to hunt a good deal later, but the extra effort reqired over chasing grouse for a day is excessive, IMO&E.

The grouse season starts Aug 1 in many areas and rus through the winter and well into spring.

Te PL is looking very good to me right now and anyone that fails to see how well they would work has never seen other "versatile" dogs struggling in saltwater ice, and big river flats.

Deep winter is trappin season. Im not out chasin grouse.

Given your mix of 70/30 I would suggest you stay with a Lab, or any breed of retriever you choose, and stay away from pointing dogs. I have owned English pointers and Labs and Goldens for the last thirty five years or so. Labs and Goldens are great hunters and great family dogs. English pointers, and most other pointing breeds I have hunted over, are not good family dogs. They are much more time consuming to train properly and need more work to be happy, if that is what they are when they are hunting. As you already know Labs are glad to be anywhere. So are Goldens. There is a reason Labs are the most popular breed of hunting dog.

I agree 100%

Pointing labs are a "new" solution to a problem that was worked out by about 30 breeds in Europe over 100 years ago. The European versatile breeds were developed to point upland birds, retrieve furred and feathered game on land and water, track furred and feathered game on land and water, and even to hunt big game. Unless a hunter is commited to Labs or nothing, I see no reason for the pointing lab to exist other than marketing!

I have hunted with labs and love them, but they are specialized retrieving dogs that are really at their best only on waterfowl. I have hunted spruce hens ptarmigan and many other upland birds with European versatile pointing dogs with complete satisfaction. If you have never hunted with a pointer be prepared for a very different experience compared to a flushing/ retrieving dog!

I have hunted over good lines of Large Munsterlanders, Britannys, Weimaraners, GSP's, Drathaars, GWPs, and have seen many more breeds such as Griffons perform in hunt tests. I would take a versatile breed every time for upland work over a Lab. Most will do good service in the water too. I hunt about 50/50 waterfowl and upland, and Saskatchewan waterfowl hunting is an intense workout for any dog. I currently hunt with Pudelpointers.

I've hunted ptarmigan with retrievers, spaniels and pointers/setters. Even though any of the three will work for me I would rather hunt ptarmigan with a spaniel or pointer/setter. I really enjoy watching a dog work in their area of expertise. I agree with C&B's comment regarding pointers.

Well put.

I've never seen a Pudelpointer in action......how about some action shots??

I know three of them...