Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Serious question, Marijuana VS Opiate based RX's and Ambien etc

Jeff, using you as the example for long term use, if MJ has no adverse affects, I am the Walrus.

How much is the lower grade per gram?
When can you deliver?
Thanks

Mark I'm praying for you, that's a heavy load you're carrying. Try it and see how you feel, you can always quit. My best to you. Just try to get your quality of life up because cronic pain is very -very depressing. Whatever works to make life bareable is justified.

I think a simple "GFY" will suffice here, but in case you are feeling extra frisky in your Kube today, I'd ask you to realize this is a serious thread and please don't start in with the shenanigans and derail it.

Got it. Thanks Jeff-O. I never know when your shenanigans are legal, let alone mine.
I'll take your selling info in a PM.

I'll go out on a limb and assume you've discussed transplantation in detail with your nephrologist? It's not the easiest route, but as slumlord says, it's the definitive treatment for PKD. Dunno that I'd feel good about going overseas and buying a healthy kidney... stories about "stolen" kidneys are frightening.

But to get to your initial question. Medical marijuana doesn't have much science behind it at all. It's used primarily as justification by deadbeat marijuana abusers for continuing to abuse marijuana, get SSI, and generally goof off. In my practice, though, I've seen a handful of people who have had real benefit from marijuana use, as have other docs. It's on the basis of these anecdotal reports (which is considered the flimsiest level of medical evidence) that medical marijuana has gained some ground with political types and legislators.

(IMHO, political agitators and unscrupulous lawmakers is what made marijuana illegal in the first place; if "Reefer Madness" and its political backers hadn't led to the banning of pot back in the 30's, we wouldn't be having this discussion today... but since it did, here we are, again... sheesh...)

The problem with herbal treatments vs "pure" and tested pharmaceutical agents is that they're based on two completely different systems of medicine. In its best forms, Eastern (e.g., Chinese herbal and/or acupuncture treatments) and Western (allopathic) medical models have a lot of good about both of them. I have no problems with my patients pursuing Eastern medicines, but I always advise them to for God's sake don't think that you can read a couple books and be a competent herbalist, any more than you can read a couple of books and then hang out your shingle as an MD.

I've had some family members and friends who got tremendous help from Chinese herbalist treatments for difficult diseases like fibromyalgia, multiple sclerosis, and the like. Conversely, I've seen a lot of Chinese folks who believed passionately in Eastern medicine, but still came to see me and my colleagues to have their cancers cut out and their coronary artery bypass grafts done.

The thing that drives practitioners in both disciplines is patients who try to make up their own therapy plan, picking some acupuncture here, some herbal medicines there, some prescription drugs over there, plus self-medicating with pot or alcohol. They never tell any of their doctors that they're seeing someone on "the other side", and certainly never admit to self-medicating. When their disease process finally spirals out of control, they never blame themselves: it's always "the doctor's fault", and the lawsuits begin.

Now, I'm not saying you're likely to do that, Mark, but you have to recognize and accept the risks if you decide to follow a non-traditional treatment like marijuana (which is non-traditional in both Eastern and Western schools of medicine, BTW). But if you do recognize and accept that, and you decide to try it and it fails to help, then make sure you get back to your doctors (of whatever stripe) and let them help you get back on track.

Now, that's it for the disclaimer. Here's the stuff you probably want to really know. A lot of Western docs don't know much about marijuana therapy, but I happen to have researched it for patients and family members, and I'm convinced it can help some people and some illnesses. A lot of MS patients get real benefit from it; example, my brother. He was in bad shape 5 years ago, couldn't drive, couldn't walk much at all and had real problems on rough ground, which really hurt his hunting and fishing. Since he can't work and his wife left him, all he's really got is hunting, fishing, and his dog. He started intensive marijuana therapy and he's now able to walk again, can drive himself to his job and to his favorite fishing holes, walk the hills to hunt muleys. Last week he shot his muley doe and had to drag it a mile back to the truck, which he was able to do with only a little help from his hunting partner.

I learned a number of years ago that all marijuana is not alike. Some strains have heavy indica content, others heavy sativa content. IIRC, strains with more indica are better for pain relief and insomnia, whereas sativa strains are better for cognitive problems such as confusion, memory impairment, and fatigue. Moreover, different blends will produce different effects profiles. You really need to do some research on the internet and elsewhere to get info on what type of pot you want to try for your symptoms.

Once you've collected that info, actually getting your hands on the right strain/blend can be problematic. Since you live in the PNW, you should be able to buy something close to what you want locally, particularly if you drive north to Vancouver, B.C., the Mecca of pot growers/users. Then try it. You might find that you'll get relief with a few puffs, or you might have to smoke a ton. Or you might find that you get the best benefit from making pot butter and baking cookies (this worked best for my ex-wife's MS... we had a local grower who would even bake the cookies for her!). A lot of people who don't smoke at all hate smoking pot... they use electrical vaporizers that minimize the harshness of inhaling pot smoke. Or you can use a water-pipe/hookah. You have to really experiment to find what works for you.

But here's the deal: if it works for you, it can transform your life, just as it did for my brother. If it doesn't help, at least it's not likely to hurt you. So as a treatment, it meets the first requirement of the Hippocratic Oath: first do no harm. On that basis, I have no problem whatsoever telling you I don't see a downside to giving it a shot.

Good luck with it, and good health, amigo.

Good stuff, Doc.

Mark, I don't think you have anything to lose by trying the marijuana. Just know that your first time getting high is something new and you will need to take that for what it is worth. It will make you just about useless the firsdt couple of times you try it. Having said that, I have to believe that smoking a little pot is better for your medically than taking any prescription drug, especially if you have kidney problems.

Give it a try. You won't fall into some terrible addiction. You may not like it, but on the other hand, it may help with your symptoms.

Good luck.

Needless to say,..I'm in favor of anybody smoking whatever they want.

But honestly,..I've never noticed pot having any pain killing properties.

Some people may have had a different experience.

For me, though, smoking a joint when I got a toothache is just going to make me sit and think, " Holy chit!,..this fuggin' tooth hurts!"

Pot isn't liquor.

PM me - I'll give you my phone number. We need to talk.

The change for the better in my own life - is hard to believe. I can't believe how much better it works for my own back-pain than the much more dangerous drugs I used to be prescribed.

I'd be glad to help you - and I know you'll have too many questions to answer here.

Regards,

Given your age there is no risk of advancing the onset of psychiatric illness. Check with your primary care doc & your nephrologist first. Best of luck.

great post Doc.....from what ive seen with people and my own experiance:

does marijuana qualify as a form of medicine? yes definitely...

is it better than what the doc can give yah? depends....only place ive seen it truly excel over normal meds with any solid regularity is with nausea for chemo.....

with everything else its a crapshoot but one thing to keep in mind that people forget to bring up is quality of life and alot of times while pot may not work as good as some pill the side effects that go with pot are often much easier to live with than the side effects of other meds and just being able to enjoy life is a huge deal....

ive been on opiates daily for chronic pain for over a decade and i can tell you it [bleep] sucks....ive tried every drug any doc has suggested that even had a small chance of working in order to get rid of the opiates, most of these drugs work in the brain, not where the pain is and because of that they tend to have a laundry list of possible side efects and if your one of the lucky ones who doesnt get the side effects than these drugs are a godsend.....if your like me and tend to ge the side effects than the drugs are damn near worse than the pain....

with some diseases or syndromes like MS which docs dont understand real well, for some people pot makes a huge improvement in their quality of life sometimes just cause if you have to be stoned on something pot beats opiates if you have to be on it every day for months and years on end and there is even anecdotal evidence that it actually treats the issue....is that hard science? no ofcourse not but MS is a miserable condition to live with so what the hell it sure aint gonna make yah worse...

for someone like me where things like cymbalta doesnt work or they have a bad reaction to it like i did then there are two options as far as drugs go, pot or opiates.....either way your on a mind altering chemical so whats it matter which it is? and as someone else on this thread said as far as pain goes, if you think it improves the amount of pain your in than it does work...

Mark, go buy your self a water bong, and get some good medical grade cheeba, Ive had family members dying of cancer that used it to great effect as a anti nausea and pain reliever, they tailor grow this stuff for different uses. If someone give you [bleep] about it, give me their name address and phone number and ill have a nice "chat" with them

It is still against Federal law, and if I recall, they are the ones in charge at the ATF and FBI (background checks).

Just wanted to throw my experiance out there. When I was 17 I totaled my first car (air bag in the chest and took out the windshield with my forehead) then about8 months later while working construction I fell about 18 feet and landed flat on my back. After all this I was pretty messed up for a while, tried quite a few prescriptions to manage the pain while also going to the chiropractor,then the gawd awful migrains started.... One thing I hated about the meds was that one would seem to work for about a week to 10 days then I would start feeling awful, could barely eat, get dizzy,throbbing head aches, ect.
One weekend I was in quite a bit of back pain and could feel a migrain starting up. This particular week end was supposed to be a bachelor party for a friend of mine so I had spent the last 2 days trying to manage with advil so I could get drunk(always hated drinking while on meds) anyway fastforward to Saturday night and I was damn near curled up in the fetal position screaming. My future brother in law walked over and said here smoke this and handed me a blunt, WOW that made a huge difference. It pretty much made my migrain go away and with another dose of advil even my back pain was tolerable.
Lets just say that I spent the next few months using weed and some advil to control things. I still suffer from having a bad back but if I dont do anything stupid I can live with it, I also still have the occasional migrain that can be treated with over the counter migrain meds. I will say without hesitation though that for those few months till the docs and the chiropractor got my back and neck straightened out the pot was a godsend. The only real reason that I dont still use when i have a migrain is that I am in a place right now where I cannot afford to pi$$ hot.

I suppose each reacts to a drug differently, I felt the same way. Pot killed no pain. Made it worse.

as Doc said there are different types of pot....3 different types originally from three different areas, one is from the foothills of the Himalayas(indica), one from Africa(sativa) and a third from the Ural Mountains in western Russia(ruderalis)....and along with looking and growing quite different, chemically speaking the make up of each is different with indicas doing far more for pain than the others....infact ive heard quite often that sativas are nearly worthless for pain relief....

stolen from another site:

Indicas are very effective for overall pain relief and is often used to treat insomnia for many people. Indica buds are most commonly smoked by medical marijuana patients in the late evening or even right before bed due to how sleepy and tired you become when high from an indica strain of marijuana, like Kush.

Benefits of Indica:
1. Relieves body pain
2. Relaxes muscles
3. Relieves spasms, reduces seizures
4. Relieves headaches and migraines
5. Relieves anxiety or stress

Sativa dominant marijuana strains tend to have a more grassy type odor to the buds providing an uplifting, energetic and �cerebral� high that is best suited for daytime smoking. A sativa high is one filled with creativity and energy as being high on sativa can spark new ideas and creations. Many artists take advantage of the creative powers of cannabis sativa (marijuana) to create paintings.

Benefits of Sativa:
1. Feelings of well-being and at-ease
2. Up-lifting and cerebral thoughts
3. Stimulates and energizes
4. Increases focus and creativity
5. Fights depression

Back in the day, in bumphuck Egypt as we liked to say, it was quite the event when some Alcupulco Gold showed up. Ditto for the first wave of "sinsemilla" from Cali.

Things have sure changed, eh?

I have a friend with a medical grow card. I'll ask him if he has any thoughts on strains vs. symptoms.

The good news for Mark is, barring legal setbacks, he'll be able to buy it in the damn store here real soon! How civilized is THAT?!

Dilaudid is some damn good stuff. I had my appendix out back in April, they gave me that stuff post-op for about 16 hours. I'd watch them put it in the iv-port, about a minute later, I was care free for the next 4 hours.

Alcupolco Gold along with most the named strains from the 60's & 70's were African sativa grown in multiple places south of the border....Mexico, Columbia ect...IIRC the parent seeds came out of the hash region of Morocco...

Sensimilla, not "sinsemilla" just means the end product doesnt have seeds and can refer to any strain.....basically what happened is the high quality growing shifted from the growing in fields south of the border to people in the US segregating plants in small scale keeping the male plants away from the females so no seeds would be produced....with no males around to pollenate no seeds would be produced and the result is a stronger end product....