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South Korea would require little assistance from US ground forces to defeat North Korea right now. I've got "pretty good" and "pretty current" insight into both sides' order of battle and status of forces.

This vignette from todays DEBKA FILE sums up what Israel is up against. In a nutshell, General Halutz states that Irans nuclear arsenal is just a part of the matrix, he feels confident they have their heel on the bastard's necks and will apply pressure at the appropriate time. I tried to find an article in the Jerusalem Post last week that stated it is common knowledge in the Israeli military that they were responsible for the death of an Iranian General in that plane crash in Iran last month.


IDF chief of staff Lt.-Gen Dan Halutz says Israel�s strategic situation has never been better, aside from the Iranian threat

January 17, 2006, 11:20 PM (GMT+02:00)

Iran�s potential acquisition of nuclear weapons will pose an existential threat to Israel, said Israel�s top soldier in a lecture at Haifa University Monday, Jan. 17. At the same time, he said he was extremely satisfied with the present national security situation.

DEBKAfile�s strategic experts note that Israel faces not one but three strategic menaces that are even more immediate than the Iranian bomb.

1. The certain Hamas election win in the Jan 25 Palestinian general election potentially imperils Israel�s existence � not because the Palestinian Islamic group is capable of conquering Beersheba or any other Israeli city, but because its victory at the polls will place Israel in the path of armed onslaught its bellicose parent, the Muslim Brotherhood. Halutz is fudging the issue when he proposes waiting for after the election to see where the Palestinians are heading; it is already plain: in the same direction as the Muslim Brotherhood, towards a campaign to destroy Israel.

Any country in the Muslim Brotherhood�s sights is in existential peril. Hosni Mubarak acted to protect his regime when, unlike Israel, he prevented its adherents from openly challenging him in the December election.

2. Al Qaeda has marked Israel down as a main target. The acuteness of this danger may be measured by two yardsticks:.

First, by the impact of a mega-attack on the scale of the 9/11 assault on America. Americans are still conscious of the indelible imprint this atrocity left on their national life. Since then, the United States has been drawn into protracted wars on global terror. Israel lacks the geographical, economic and military resources of the United States; a major al Qaeda assault might therefore leave the Jewish state with a scant chance of survival.

Second, More than 150,000 American troops plus 50,000 allied soldiers are unable to vanquish al Qaeda in Iraq and are on the verge of retreat. The Palestinians see in Iraq an analogy for their own case. Whether this is true or not, this sense colors their strategic attitude, which the Israeli government and armed forces have failed to discourage, thereby placing the country in existential danger.

3. It is always possible that all three foes will band together, with or without Iran and the Hizballah, for a concerted effort to destroy Israel.

There is no guarantee that one or more of these threats to Israel�s existence will not mature before the Iranian bomb.

ironbender;

I like the way you think. Hmmm... open a few Hooters on the SoKo side of the DMZ, put up big screens to show the very nice interior "decor" of those places, and some fans to blow the smell of real food North...

Better make those restaurants big enough to seat a REALLY big party... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good, then we should bring you and the 35,000 or so other soldiers home from South Korea, right?

Sounds like a grand idea to me.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

RLW;
every country has it's naysayers. Isreal is under tremendous pressure. I am surprised they have not wiped out the arab race. They have tollerated much more than this country ever would. I beg to differ, that America has been drawn in to protracted wars; The american people have chosen to wipe out terrorist's and those who support them. Progress at vanquishing said terrorists,is being made in leaps and bounds. Anyone that doubts this has blinders on. The palestinian cause is one of total hate and should be ignored. As with any multi-faceted problem, one disects it into pieces, and handles it accordingly. Running up the white flag is not an option, and it is not the American way.

At the risk of starting another harangue regarding a possible Israeli response to Iran�s nuclear program, I�ll throw some fuel onto the campfire. It seems that a number of campers admire Israel and wish that the US would follow its example. True, Israel exists in a dangerous part of the world and its� post-WWII settlers suffered horrible experiences at Nazi hands. The nation is beleaguered, and the US has supported it both financially and morally. How have we been repaid?

Check some of the following sites:
�http://www.ussliberty.org/� and read the report �War Crimes Report Filed by USS Liberty Survivors�. In 1968, Israel attacked a US Navy ship (USS Liberty) in international waters for a period of several hours. 34 Americans were killed in action and 173 were wounded in action, out a crew compliment of 294.

�http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spying.html�, and
�http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/motherofallscandals.html�
Read about deeply seated Israeli spy operations against the US that compromised intelligence and US security.

�http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1212-06.htm� and
�http.//newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml�
Read about Israeli investments in US telecommunication companies that conduct wire taps of US citizens (perhaps yours?).

Anyway, Israel does things to its best ally that exceed the bounds of friendship.

1) Yeah, almost forty years ago the IDF screwed up and attacked our ship. [bleep] happens in wars. Kind of like our shooting down that Iranian airliner. Unfortunate, but not evidence of anything.
2) Israeli spying on the US is irritating---I'm sure our spying on them is also irritating to the Israelis. But frankly, any secret of ours that they stole was probably more secure in Israeli hands than in ours.
3)They invested in a company-----and.....
Of course, newsmax is famous for running stories that nobody else picks up.

If that's your complaints, I'll stick with the Israelis as allies, thanks.

DJS:I thought this is what you were implying with your first post. You state America will loose in a war with Iran. You state Isreal is a lost cause and will be destroyed. You say America will be defeated by Al Queda. I say you are misinformed, an enemy simpathizer, a KKK member or all of the above. Your drivvle carries no more credence here.

Did you notice the Liberty was not sunk? Damage Control!

djs;

No [bleep], huh? No exactly a top secret clearance topic there.

Yeah, the Israelis f'ked up. We know it; they know it. Both sides acknowledged it and moved past it. Does it still suck for the seamen on-board then? Absolutely.

But, if my arse was in the sling, there are danged few units outside the IDF that I'd want backing me up other than the Israelis. I'll take the Israelis, pound-for-pound, against any force on the planet up to 10 times their size, any day, and twice any day in the Middle East.

--------------------------------------

It is happening now, but in a way and pace that is transparent to most of the general public. Our presence has shrunk from 37k to 32k during my time here. Remember all those boys from 2nd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division (SECOND TO NONE!) kicking butt in Iraq a year ago? They went there from Korea and did not return. That unit now resides at Ft Carson. We are getting ready to shrink again and there are major changes in mission allocation, command and control of US/ROK forces (a US general currently commands all ROK armed forces during war), organization of forces, and positioning of forces ongoing. We will continue to have some troops and command and control capability here for a good while, but the presence is undergoing major changes, shrinking, and moving.

Expat

What happened to the USS Liberty by the IDF was no mistake. There are some hard points to make here because both sides had major points of contention, but I'll take a shot. The short story is this. The USS Liberty was a electronic surveillance vessel. It was monitoring Israel's communications and feeding info to the Syrians and Egyptians. Some of this info was not too flattering in terms of Israel's possible courses of action, but the info we were feeding Israel's enemies was also hampered their ability to effectively defeat the invaders. Israel felt its national survival was at stake, so they did what they thought they had to to stop the flow of information. You will note they did not sink; they damaged it to the point in which they thought it could no longer transmit. You will also note we did not respond because it would have brought into sharp focus world-wide the mission and activites of that ship. While the death of US service members infuriates me, I think I would want my country to respond in a like manner if a country was listening to our comms and transmitting our scheme of maneuver and mission endstate to the enemy.

I'm now zipping up my asbestos jump suit............

Can't we just all get along, follow the democrats lead, and get on our hands and knees, and pray to Islam that they won't hurt us. All of this retalitory talk gives me the hives................................
LOL......I'm with the Marvin Gaye crowd
"LET'S GET IT ON".........it's all those little turds understand.

Expat;

Exactly. I cannot, and will not fault the Israelis for doing what they did, nor do I condone it. Much like the Brits post-1812. We were once, for a brief time, enemies. Now, we are allies, and the closest thereof, having proven ourselves to each other on the fields of battle, and sworn to it in blood. Anyone who has worn a uniform knows that oath.

Again, I'd trust the IDF with my life. Moreover, I'd trust the IDf with my DAUGHTER's life. There are DAMNED few in whose hands I'd consider that precious life safe.

Clear enough?

No need for the suit. You are right on. Our boys did one heck of a job keeping it afloat. Well trained men doing what they were trained to do. DC was my line of work my first seven years.

Scott, what were you on?

USS Sylvania AFS 2
USS Grand Canyon AR28

The rest of the time I was a hard hat diver.

My reserve time was spent in submarine repair. I spent several years going to Pearl then spent the last eight years at Bangor WA. Stuff I can�t say a lot about. It totals to 18 years for retirement and 24 years for pay. I have six gold hash marks and a gold MR1 crow on my blues.

Grandfather was on an LCI/G; uncle was on a sub tender, great-uncles on carriers.

Girlfriend's sister is a 1st Class, and her fiance' is a Lt. (mustang).

BTW - one of my cousins (g'fathers 1st cousins) was one of the last enlisted pilots in the USN. Second highest enlisted (by 3.5 months seniority) when he retired. On subchasers.

PM me. We'll talk... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />