Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns SHTF Guns - A more realistic approach?

I have always contended that BY FAR the most useful firearm during some sort of societal collapse or SHTF scenario is the handgun. In history, a society collapsing to the point to where people walk the streets with assault rifles is an exceptionally rare event. Yeah, there are such places right now in the Middle East and Africa, but they really have nothing in common with the US so I don�t much worry about such things too much.

What I have noticed in history is the failure of law. When the SHTF for any considerable period of time (generally greater than one week), the first thing to fail, and often the last thing to return is law enforcement, and criminal justice. Therefore, crime tends to escalate somewhat in waves. First comes the looting, which is the low hanging fruit. Most is unopposed so guns rarely come into play. Next comes the timeless practice of �highway robbery� where bandits setup road blocks and rip you off. Then comes random street crime, and home invasions.

Since it�s impractical to tote your AR15 through the mall, the one firearm that truly IS practical is the handgun. Even when there is societal collapse, some sort of �law enforcement� will be present. Whether it�s the existing law enforcement just making a show of it, or some local tuff who�s self declared himself or his organization as �law�. In such instances, they will swarm you and relieve you of your AR-15 quickly. For the random crime and highway robbery the handgun is what you�re much more likely to have with you, and much less likely to be taken away from you. But don�t think that it will never be taken away. If for some reason you come across a �checkpoint�, they may collect your weapons; so extra handguns at home are a good idea. I know this because I have had my under-folder AK and handgun �confiscated� at a �checkpoint� in a 3rd world nation before. If you pass the attitude test and don�t appear a threat, they will just relieve you of your arms. Make a fuss, and you might as well just come out shooting; bad idea�the people who setup these check points typically have thought that particular angle through.

Very quickly you�ll learn to recognize potential threats before they become actual threats; either that, or you die off early. So street sense, and a concealed handgun become the REAL weapons of those who live in the post SHTF environment.

So, save the money you�d spend on a dozen AR-15�s or AK�s and buy a dozen handguns, and some extra holsters. It makes sense to standardize on a single model so they can all share the same magazines and holsters. And when needed, you can give said handguns to friends for mutual support.

A realistic approach would be to own both, plus a good shotgun...

a 22LR rifle is highly recommended as well...

Hunt food with the 22LR as ammo will always be more widely available and cheaper.

Save AR, Handgun, and shotgun for more "serious" occasions.

There is no one approach fits all concept in SHTF scenario's. Your best bet for survival is having options and wisdom.

True, a rifle will never conceal as well as a handgun.....but a handgun will never be the weapon a rifle is. Buy a dozen handguns and a dozen rifles! Balance is essential...

HugA is correct....need to add a dozen shotguns as well.

And a Swiss Army knife...


Sorry Kevin, couldn't resist.

x 12

If my friends aren't as prepared/armed as I am they don't need to bother showing up .

I agree with your thoughts in regards to the role of the handgun. I also see the necessity of the AR/shotgun in the same scenario.

Buy 'em all says I!

george

Being present during a few instances of riots getting out of hand for a few hours or days, I pretty much agree with Kevin.
Maybe this is just true in Kalifornia, but it apparently happens in similar places as well. Or so those I've met on the inside tell me.
What I've noticed over the years is that it happens in the big cities and similar environments. What happens is that the cops get busy with anything, even a so called "peaceful demonstration," and they are no longer responding to calls for assistance. In a full blown riot, they are over whelmed for days, even weeks. Ask anybody who had anything to do with the LA riots, either in the 60's or the Rodney King riots.
BTW, in the RK riots, you had the US military taking over for the local cops and the national guard. That's because many of the local cops and some of the guard refused to confront the rioters. Others were told they couldn't have more than two rounds in each of their M16 magazines.
These places had people manning roof tops in their neighborhoods because car loads of gang memebers would drive through neighborhoods and shoot randomly at the homes there. Small bussinesses in the "riot neighborhood" expended cases of shotgun shells with birdshot trying to drive off looters to their stores.
So, if you need to move about, you are probably better off with a handgun as even the authorities will take away your long guns if you venture away from your home or bussiness with one. But, so far, they don't get around taking them from you at home or at your bussiness.
Since I'm on the subject, I suspect we will see some more of this sort of thing here in sunny Kalifornia. E

Some good comments and I agree, I don't think most of us have nearly enough mags for our key handguns. I think that may be my next project.

I agree whole heartedly and think 10 $200 handguns (police trade in?) with magazines and ammo stashed at various locations (car, house, friends house, buried somewhere...) is better than one $2000 custom 1911. Of course Cooper said a handgun is what you use to fight your way to a long gun (ro something like that).

I don't know if I buy a lot of the assumptions in the OP. Large parts of the US don't have much in common with a third world country. If somebody sets up a "checkpoint", they had best be a world-class badass, and/or have a bunch of buddies, because there's going to be a whole bunch of regular folks with guns not taking too kindly to that. Add on the pent-up hate and discontent that's going to go along with a breakdown of law and order, and I'm not so sure ruling out long guns makes much sense.

That�s what everyone says before it happens. Then they see a half dozen, well armed hard cases and they start thinking very long and hard about when, where, and what to fight over. My first and foremost responsibility is to MY family. So if someone says, hey let�s go take on the hard cases because they�re running a road block, I�ll only do so if it�s directly threatening the well being of my family. When it all hits the fan, most take good stock of what�s really important, and the tough talk just quietly goes away.

I think your theory blows up long before it even gets there. Your half dozen "hard cases" know there's a bazillion other mofos out there with guns. Setting up a checkpoint that can be approached from several directions by several dozen people is a losing proposition from the get go. Your theory only works where ALL the people are sheeple.

The only SHTF scenarios I�ve seen personally were hurricanes and race riots in Miami, and I didn�t really see the latter, just read about them from a safe distance of 27 miles away. From what I recall folks in the periphery of the riot area hunkered down and protected themselves. I remember reading of one trailer park where certain of the residents armed themselves with shotguns and stood at the entrances to the park, preventing anyone from entering that they didn�t know. When interviewed by a reporter one of the guards said a policeman had come by and seeing the openly armed guards encouraged the behavior, saying that they were on their own for the time being.

In the aftermath of hurricanes with power out, trees down and miscellaneous destruction about, neighborhood residents (white middle class neighborhood if that has a bearing) just banded together to help each other clear out the debris. No armed gangs about. One time some kid was driving his ATV through the neighborhood at high speed and words were exchanged, but that was the extent of that violence.

In those two cases folks could stay put. In New Orleans where people had to evacuate I understand that the National Guard was disarming anyone openly carrying but Steve NO or someone from that area could tell that tale better than I.

This is all interesting to ponder and probably means more to folks in some areas of the country than others, particularly those with a more varied socio-economic populace. In Boise, a much more likely SHTF scenario would be if WinCo runs out of a favorite micro-brew.

In such circumstances, the role of the AR-15 and similar carbines would be community security, which assumes the communities are banding together to keep the insanity, mobs, etc., from entering their communities. That sort of weapon would not be what you carry around as a wondering loner among the rabble.

I also think that the two chamberings should be 40 S&W and 5.56.

I think the SHTF scenario depends on where one lives. If I'm away from home I'll probably be without a firearm anyway so it won't matter much. If I'm in my area of operation my custom 1911, when it gets back, and my Ruger SBH will work just fine.

As to road blocks by gangs in Montana not likely unless one considers government retainers (LEO) as gang members.

Like on said on a similar thread on the hunters campfire forum.

Hey, I have a Remington #4 rolling block .22, 2 boxes of .22 long rifle and 2 boxes of .22 shorts a total of 200 rounds! And 4 cans of SPAM, & a loaf of Sunbeam sandwich bread, I am SET!

How long does it take that white bread to start growing mold???

See that's brilliance of Terry's bug-out kit. Penicillin and food all at the same time!