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kman Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mark R Dobrenski
Originally Posted by kman
I randomly stumbled across this article while looking for 308 150gr etip loads.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA555975

Is there anyone out there that can speak to the 150gr etip or the article in general? The reason for choosing the 150gr etip over the barnes for example was the high bc of .469. If this is ~40% over inflated as the article suggests, that's a real bummer.

Any thoughts?


Kman-my curious side has me wanting to ask so I will but how far off are you planning to use this bullet?

Thx
Dober


I have 40 loaded in my 300 wsm and I'm sure they will be fine out to 300 or so but don't think I will advise them to my friend at 308 speeds.

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That was a good demonstration of just how easy it can be to fine tune a load's BC based or real world conditions and drop data. Even with such demonstrations, I expect the technique will remain one of the best kept secrets among long range hunters.

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Originally Posted by MacLorry
That was a good demonstration of just how easy it can be to fine tune a load's BC based or real world conditions and drop data. Even with such demonstrations, I expect the technique will remain one of the best kept secrets among long range hunters.

That was a nice demonstration, a lot more sophisticated than my plugging numbers until the ballistic program reflected my data. Just goes to show, one cannot always rely on marketing hype. That's another reason why one needs to go to the range and shoot each distance involved when having a yardage turret made for a certain load. They'll go by the advertised B.C. and the finished product may not be right, probably won't be.

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by MacLorry
That was a good demonstration of just how easy it can be to fine tune a load's BC based or real world conditions and drop data. Even with such demonstrations, I expect the technique will remain one of the best kept secrets among long range hunters.

That was a nice demonstration, a lot more sophisticated than my plugging numbers until the ballistic program reflected my data. Just goes to show, one cannot always rely on marketing hype. That's another reason why one needs to go to the range and shoot each distance involved when having a yardage turret made for a certain load. They'll go by the advertised B.C. and the finished product may not be right, probably won't be.

DF


No need to test every range unless you think your turret is crap, and if you do, get a better one. Just zero at some range like 200 yards and then see what drop you get at two more ranges such as 300 and 400 yards or longer if that's what you intend to shoot at. From my prior post you see it's easy to find the BC that gives you the right drop at one other range. The magic of Dr. Oehler's software is that you can use drop at a third range to test that BC or discover other factors like small changes in MV that give a match. Every time you click or drag a slider control all the numbers and graphs update instantly, you just click-in the solution. No other software that I know of figures head and tail winds into BC, yet I run into both most of the time when I'm shooting. Once you have the real BC worked out you can figure your drop at any other range under any other conditions. Unless you're 12 and rich you don't have enough time or ammo to test all that at the range.

Unfortunately, MacLorry is right, this technique and many others might as well be a secret because the required software is beyond the means for most of those reading this blog. wink

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Originally Posted by Gath_Sten
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by MacLorry
That was a good demonstration of just how easy it can be to fine tune a load's BC based or real world conditions and drop data. Even with such demonstrations, I expect the technique will remain one of the best kept secrets among long range hunters.

That was a nice demonstration, a lot more sophisticated than my plugging numbers until the ballistic program reflected my data. Just goes to show, one cannot always rely on marketing hype. That's another reason why one needs to go to the range and shoot each distance involved when having a yardage turret made for a certain load. They'll go by the advertised B.C. and the finished product may not be right, probably won't be.

DF


No need to test every range unless you think your turret is crap, and if you do, get a better one. Just zero at some range like 200 yards and then see what drop you get at two more ranges such as 300 and 400 yards or longer if that's what you intend to shoot at. From my prior post you see it's easy to find the BC that gives you the right drop at one other range. The magic of Dr. Oehler's software is that you can use drop at a third range to test that BC or discover other factors like small changes in MV that give a match. Every time you click or drag a slider control all the numbers and graphs update instantly, you just click-in the solution. No other software that I know of figures head and tail winds into BC, yet I run into both most of the time when I'm shooting. Once you have the real BC worked out you can figure your drop at any other range under any other conditions. Unless you're 12 and rich you don't have enough time or ammo to test all that at the range.

Unfortunately, MacLorry is right, this technique and many others might as well be a secret because the required software is beyond the means for most of those reading this blog. wink

The scope and turret weren't the weak link in my chain, it was me... blush

Shooting at hundred yard increments gave me the confidence I needed in the rig.

If I was sophisticated enough with programs, etc. I'd have done something like you recommend.

DF

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[/quote]
From my prior post you see it's easy to find the BC that gives you the right drop at one other range. The magic of Dr. Oehler's software is that you can use drop at a third range to test that BC or discover other factors like small changes in MV that give a match.
[/quote]

Thanks for the credit, but the "sliders" and easy solution were entirely the invention Richard Larson who has labored on "Ballistic Explorer" for many decades.

Ken O


As it was explained to me many years ago, "I feel sorry for those who believe that ballistics is an exact science. They just don't understand the problems."
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Thanks, Dr. Ken, for your input, as always.

Wishing you and yours a wonderful Christmas season.

Best regards,

DF

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Originally Posted by KenOehler
Quote

From my prior post you see it's easy to find the BC that gives you the right drop at one other range. The magic of Dr. Oehler's software is that you can use drop at a third range to test that BC or discover other factors like small changes in MV that give a match.


Thanks for the credit, but the "sliders" and easy solution were entirely the invention Richard Larson who has labored on "Ballistic Explorer" for many decades.

Ken O


Appreciate your reply and enjoy learning something about who�s behind the scenes. I just read Guns & Ammo�s interview with you in their January issue. I was one of those fortunate to experience shooting with a gun club buddy�s Model 43 some 17 years ago. Back then we thought 300 yards was long range and I see from the G&A write up you�re planning something for much longer ranges, a spin-off of a military system. Don�t know if you can share anything more, but if this topic is any indication such a product is highly needed.

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