Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 454 Casull vs bigger calibers question

Cobrad -- Alaska......

The 50AE lacks the velocity of the Casull at maximum loading, is a semi-auto and likely weighs more than your RB. All reasons the recoil will be different.

You might want to consider using Barnes as a deer hunting bullet. Partitions or Gold Dots would also be good choices. I believe any of those would open more consistently than either a 240 or 300 XTP.

If you would also like to try light loads, that still achieve decent hunting velocities, try Titegroup. If you want to step up a bit more from that, H4227 is a good choice.

Exactly! I have the same problems with my 45-70 BFR. Bullet is too fast with no expansion. You NEED some but not too much expansion for deer when you shoot fast bullets. The velocity of the .454 is too much for a tough bullet on small animals. Get a heavy bullet to 1300 to 1350 fps max and things change. The .45 Colt at 1100 is actually better with a hard bullet. Too much expansion with the 45-70 or .454 will turn a deer into a bloody mess.
Recoil is gun weight and large calibers are pleasant as long as the gun has some. I like the BFR's for the .475 and JRH. I like longer barrels of 7-1/2" to 10". Not carry guns, hunting guns.
I shot 6 deer this season, 2 with the JRH, 2 with the .475 and 2 with the .44 SBH. The .475 put both deer on the ground DRT so I did not need a blood trail. I use a hard cast at 1329 fps, 420 gr. This is the penetration. The deer was facing me on a hill at 67 yards. I hit him below the chin and the boolit exited next to the anus.

<a href="http://s244.beta.photobucket.com/user/bfrshooter/media/neckshotexitwith475.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg3/bfrshooter/neckshotexitwith475.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

I lost the exit picture.

I actually lost no meat and did not break guts. The boolit took out a pile of ribs under the back strap without hurting the back strap.

if you handload, 44 caliber for hunting a good cast /gas check bullet with a wide melplat that weights close to 270-300 grains, and cast from 96% wheel weights and 5% tin is what I,ve used for decades, I seldom fail to get exit wounds and rarely have game run far
both blue dot and H110 seem to provide good results in the 44 mag, blue dot gives up a bit of velocity but not much, and I seem to get better accuracy and many more cartridges per pound

knowing the games anatomy is critical to getting good results, you can,t shoot at any part with hair and expect to get fast kills, you can EXPECT deer to run a short distance when hit but hit correctly distances covered are usually short , hogs in my experience don,t travel even that far.



http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44%20Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/51...0-diameter-310-grain-flat-nose-gas-check

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/50...meter-300-grain-semi-wadcutter-gas-check

I use all kinds of guns but in the end the truth is there is none better for deer then the .44.
Stay away from silly 180 or 200 gr explosive bullets. Even the 240 XTP opens too fast. Go to the 300 XTP or a 270 to 320 gr cast with a good meplat.

Are you saying it's better to have a heavy slow bullet than a fast light on for deer? I would rather have rapid expansion than penetration, as i don't think any bullet from a .454 at a reasonable distance will fail to exit.

Whit is correct; North of Nome, Alaska. He's 62" and likely every bit of 1300-1400 lbs.

Your understanding of the wide meplat is spot on.

Alan

I've used the 454,460 and 500's..and have come full circle back to the .45 Colt pushing a 300 or 325 at 1200 FPS..it simply works and is shootable.

The real question is- why would you ever need anything bigger?

Well, if the shooter can handle the bigger caliber, loaded correctly they just do more. I like big holes, they leak a lot!

That Garret Cartridges .44 Magnum load of a 330-gr SuperHardCast Long Hammerhead at 1400-fps is badass.
I don't hand load for handguns...but using a long heavy for caliber bullet in a .454 Casull that has a wide meplat and is super hard cast and operating at the maximum velocity and pressure would seemingly make for a super badass round.

A common mistake is pushing hardcast bullets too fast. The material cannot take too much velocity, the nose degrades and penetration suffers as a result. You really don't have to push a wide meplat hardcast bullet fast for it to be effective.

Can't they be cast hard enough so the higher velocity won't cause the problems you mention?

Often when you make them too hard, they become brittle and can come apart when they connect with something hard like bone.

What about a material like those 'solids' that they shoot through buffalo in Africa with very little deformation of the bullet? Couldn't that kind of material be used?

Yes. I shot many deer with fast opening bullets and recovered too many inside the deer. I was lucky to find some deer because there was no blood trail at all back to where I shot them. Then I thought about a big bone hit, not good. I went to the .44 LBT 320 gr and the blood trails are amazing. Thick country with a million trails and tracks so you can lose a deer. I made a 330 gr mold and also use the Lee 310 gr, all work.
I thought going faster with the 45-70 would be better but hard boolits just poke a hole, no blood for 100 yards and deer can go over 200 yards. I went to a softer boolit but it was too soft and made a red mist with huge meat loss. It has to be somewhere in between.
What I figured is the flat meplat from a hard boolit will create a pressure wave too far forward of the ogive and make a huge secondary wound channel that collapses while removing tissue from contact with the boolit. Deer shot with the fast, hard flat nose had pink lungs with a hole through.
The .454 is fast so I think just some expansion is needed.
A larger animal where the pressure wave comes back from the boolit slowing should make the boolit work but deer are small.
Nothing proven of course, just what I figure but I shoot a lot of deer.
The .475 has been amazing but I now see a problem with the .500 JRH. The huge, heavy boolit does not slow down and the two I shot this season left a zero blood trail. I might need a little softer nose. I backtrack every deer and found nothing on the ground at all. One ran towards me 100 yards and dropped with no blood trail back to where I shot him. I am concerned.
This is a work in progress and I have no answers yet.
The truth is I get huge blood trails with heavy boolits in the .44 and deer do not go far.
It is not only the exit you need but what the boolit does before exit. I was wrong thinking making a hard WFN faster would make it do more damage.

If you want a bullet that can stand the high velocity then the "Punch" bullet is your "huckleberry". The added velocity really gains you nothing, but each to his/her own

I am one that finds the .475 Linebaugh to have more recoil and be more difficult to shoot well than a full power .45 Colt/ .454 Casull load (350gr WLN at 1500 fps).

When I worked for Linebaugh I could shoot all the .475 and .500s I wanted and let�s just say it was never really very many. A few in a day seemed like more than enough.

I have never killed any game with the .475 Linebaugh but my experience with the 45 Colt/ .454 Casull has me wondering just how much better it could be on game up to and including elk and moose. The 45s seemed like a step up from my old .44 but how much more there is to be gained was always a question for me.

In other words the 45s have always worked better than expected.