Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Shot size for ruffed grouse

troutfly,

Would love to hear the ballistic difference between low- and high-brass shells.

Not that I obsess about this, but I load fast (international trap) loads of 7's for ruffed, sharptails and huns, i.e. 7/8ths at over 1400 fps. For Chukar and blue grouse, 1 1/8th of sixes (1 oz in the 20), fast-ish. Sage grouse and pheasants get 1 3/8th's of 5's (except the third shot, which is a buffered load of 1 1/2 of 4's.

The fast 7's do bring home more birds than standard 7.5's, it appears to me.

BTW troufly, I shot one once with a 180 gr Speer Mag Tip from a 308 Norma Mag, the head dissapeared and ended up stripping all the feathers of the neck, it was a nice clean kill [/quote]

Pretty much the way it should be. Too low and all you get is a cloud of feathers, don't ask.... Not a good way to put dinner on the campfire.

MD: Only reason I use the high brass shells because that is mostly what is avail locally. Pretty limited selection of stores that sell ammunition in Med Hat.

I went and checked what loads I have here, as I suspected, the only low brass I have is partial box of 7 1/2's I have left from one of those 100 round bargain packages that Waly World sells.
Everything else from several nontox waterfowl loads to lead in 4 and 6 is high brass, all purchased locally. Such is life.

Winchester Super Pheasant, 1 ounce of copper 6, are great stuff in the 20 gauge.

#8 shot for grouse. You just don't need anymore. Heck I occassionally use no. 8's to take pheasants. I migth add that I don't like to use any choke at all and my shots are within 30 yards.

7 1/2 for before the leaves fall.

After the leaves fall I run 7 1/2s.

William Harden Foster-or maybe it was Burton Spiller, can't remember exactly-had a theory on patterning that he wrote many years ago.
At least one shot in every square inch of pattern and shot size becomes relatively unimportant on Ruffed Grouse. They all work. You will either kill them with large shot penetration or knock them silly dead with cumulative ft/lbs and smaller shot.

Isn't more brass, more better? LOL

Battue, you are correct it was Foster who suggested the pellet per square inch pattern.

He referenced a study of hunting notes which indicated that the average New England grouse was shot at 21 yards. He advocated a pattern that met the inch per pellet spread at 25 yards in the first barrel. He also figured that by the time you shot at a bird and could recover to shoot again after a miss it would put the average bird at 35 yards. So therefore the second barrel should be patterned for a pellet per square inch at 35 yards.

You can't talk about shot size without talking about choke. I shoot a 7.5lb Parker 12 bored .000 and .015 which shoots to Fosters specs perfectly and it kills the best of any shotgun I've ever used for grouse and woodcock.

You don't need a 12 for grouse, but after almost a lifetime of hunting a 20 Spiller spoke of having a light 12 built. I never could find out if he ever did.

Would be interesting to know if he switched to a light 12. Problem I've found with a light 12 is we still tend to go with the same FPS shell as we use in a heavy 12 and then recoil knocks me out of the gun for a followup. Not always a problem with those who have some extra bulk. Myself being a little guy it is. Remembering pics of Spiller, it seemed he had some heft to his upper body in his later years. Although I could be wrong on that.


Sitting here waiting for the guys to wrap up the new furnace install or I would be out hunting them today. Snow on the ground, no wind and quiet. Should be a good one.

Thanks for all the posts. I hunt with a group of other troll friends in da UP every October. The last couple of years, ever since I sold my 16 ga Sterlingworth, my hit percentage has plumeted. Last year I tried #6 shot in a short-barreled 12 ga SxS choked IC and M and the safest place in the woods was in front of me.

I really need to get out the patterning board and do some work. I bought this pretty little 20 ga CZ straight grip which doesn't throw as heavy of a charge as the 12 ga, so was thinking I probably should drop down a notch in shot size to keep the patterns dense. Most places we hunt you can't even see 20 yards, if you see the grouse at all. They seem to flush wider than in years past. I'm definitely not as quick on the gun as I used to be. There are always timberdoodles in the woods when we go up in October, so that is another impetus for smaller shot. I bought a box of AA 7/8oz 7-1/2 shot to try on bunnies this winter, but bunnies are easy to kill and seem to roll over dead if you just stare at them hard enough.

Hence the axiom: NEVER sell a shotgun that fits you.

In your shoes, I would buy a gun I like, have it bent to fit me by a really good stockmaker, and load it with #8 low recoil target loads. With good boots and a retriever, you're ready.

spj, I remember an article that Spiller wrote about building his perfect grouse gun..it was the 12 ga. you spoke about..as I remember he wanted it bored cylinder and full..I may still have that article somewhere..Later, I believe it was Tap Tapply received Spillers 20 ga. Parker..it was kind of you carry my gun for a while an I will carry yours..Tap had a 20ga. single barrel..Anyway, Spiller just told him to hang on to the Parker for a while, or something like that, and the kid got to keep Spillers last shotgun..

Not always, haven't you heard about it being "Cold enough to freeze the balls off the brass monkey" I doubt the brass monkey will agree with ya!

Big Redhead,

I would second the suggestion that you shouldn't have sold the 16-gauge Fox.

The "secret" of any shooting is hitting--and it's especially true of shotgunning.

The shotguns I've kept over the years are those I can hit with consistently--no matter the gauge or gun. The choke is less important, and the shot size even less important.

That brought a smile and a blush.

I've been using my old Savage 220 16ga single shot most of this season and have yet to miss a quail with it. I'm actually doing better with the one shot than with some "pedigree" doubles.

Amazing, ain't it?

Yep, and a dmned expensive lesson I learned at age 10, but forgot in my old age.

I re-learned it very expensively with a lovely AyA sidelock 12-gauge XXV I bought when I was 35. It has nice engraving and gold inlays, and fit me perfectly. Turned out it was a great ruffed grouse gun but worthless on crossing shots, as it was too muzzle-light.

Luckily I sold it to somebody less muscular than I was, and he still shoots it well. Maybe I could now, too, since turning 60 a month ago. But I doubt it. My favorite SxS 12 now is a Sauer thst weighs a couple ounces more, and has 28" rather than 25" barrels. I bought it 12 years ago and can hit birds with it, whether at 20 or 50 yards.