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Whatever your alleged accuracy ills, the CZ is not even in the same league -- nor GAME -- as the T-Bolt. The T-Bolt was designed for scope use from the get-go, the CZ wasn't and scoping one is a minor pain in the ass. You're either stuck mounting something WAY too damned high or using something like Millet mounts (which SUCK). And don't even think about using a scope with a "normal" sized ocular bell on a CZ; i.e. a non-rimfire-specific scope. Then there's the matter of the triggers. Whatever faults you believe the T-Bolt possesses in that area, the CZ's is absolutely atrocious with a substantial amount of take up and heavy let off. And yeah, I've read all of the half-assed "fixes" and they're exactly that -- half-assed.
You get what you pay for. The Browning is well-made, capable of great accuracy, and has a company who will (mostly) stand behind their product.
The CZ is a cheap bolt action rimfire that takes a good deal of polish to bring it to the same level as the Browning. I briefly had a CZ and sold it in favor of the Browning. The one T Bolt I owned didn't impress me accuracy wise. It was a very nice looking rifle, but just didn't shoot that great. Every CZ I've owned or shot has impressed me with good if not excellent accuracy though. I've also never had any issues with mounting scopes on CZ rifles. I have CZ's scoped with various Bushnell Elites, Leupolds, and Nikon Monarch scopes. For actual use, I wouldn't trade any of my CZ's for a T Bolt. Now if I want good looks as well as accuracy, I grab a 54 actioned Anschutz. I think you can tell any story you want. Looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, tastes like bullshit. I guess the rest of the world is wrong other than one idiot posting about the vast superiority of the T Bolt.
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It's not an opinion, it's not a straight forward process of scope mounting on a CZ. That's a fact. As much as I hate to use an Internet message board as a point of reference, the fact that the girls over at rimfirecentral.com have compiled a multi-page list of how to mount a scope on a CZ for multiple mount/scope combinations says a hell of a lot. This is a point that seems to escape you: a CZ452 costs roughly $400, yet it will require a small amount of tinkering to mount a scope, the mount rail is of an inconsistent dimension (the CZ452 American is supposed to be 3/8", but is often more like 10mm or larger), the trigger needs work, and the trigger guard is a crudely formed piece of sheet metal. Iwould rather spend $700 or so right up front, mount a scope, and start shooting without trying to assemble a Rubik's cube of mount bases, rings, and scope. And then apply a half-assed fix to work over the trigger.
I bought a cz 452 in the american model. I will say that accuracy wise its a heck of a shooter in the .17hmr. I am very pleased with it. All of the points you made are valid from the experiance I have had with mine. But none a big enough issue for me to abandon it as my favorite small game rifle. The very first thing I done was to scrap the peice of crap lookin (in my opinion) trigger guard. I have been jumped on more than once by faithful followers for even suggesting that it was butt ugly. I went with a one peice r&d machined guard that I had engraved and blued. The bolt clearence issue came into play on mine as well. In fact as of right now I am using a set of see thru mounts I took off of my winny 9422m lever gun to clear the bolt issue. My plan is to have the bolt reworked with a knife/spoon handle bolt throw. That seems to be a total fix for any clearance issues from what I've heard. But then again, it is an added cost to remedy the problem. As far as the trigger, I have a few high end guns that most all have had trigger issues that I was not happy with and needed tweaking. The daves fix for the creep in my 452 was cheap enough and does seem to have taken care of my biggest complaint with it. I haven't actually held or shot the t-bolt so I can not comment on it. Other than that I thought it was an automatic action when I first saw it in the display rack.
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Whatever your alleged accuracy ills, the CZ is not even in the same league -- nor GAME -- as the T-Bolt. The T-Bolt was designed for scope use from the get-go, the CZ wasn't and scoping one is a minor pain in the ass. You're either stuck mounting something WAY too damned high or using something like Millet mounts (which SUCK). And don't even think about using a scope with a "normal" sized ocular bell on a CZ; i.e. a non-rimfire-specific scope. Then there's the matter of the triggers. Whatever faults you believe the T-Bolt possesses in that area, the CZ's is absolutely atrocious with a substantial amount of take up and heavy let off. And yeah, I've read all of the half-assed "fixes" and they're exactly that -- half-assed.
You get what you pay for. The Browning is well-made, capable of great accuracy, and has a company who will (mostly) stand behind their product.
The CZ is a cheap bolt action rimfire that takes a good deal of polish to bring it to the same level as the Browning. I briefly had a CZ and sold it in favor of the Browning. The one T Bolt I owned didn't impress me accuracy wise. It was a very nice looking rifle, but just didn't shoot that great. Every CZ I've owned or shot has impressed me with good if not excellent accuracy though. I've also never had any issues with mounting scopes on CZ rifles. I have CZ's scoped with various Bushnell Elites, Leupolds, and Nikon Monarch scopes. For actual use, I wouldn't trade any of my CZ's for a T Bolt. Now if I want good looks as well as accuracy, I grab a 54 actioned Anschutz. I think you can tell any story you want. Looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, tastes like bullshit. I guess the rest of the world is wrong other than one idiot posting about the vast superiority of the T Bolt. I guess you can't grasp the f*cking point that was made earlier: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, [bleep]. To try and advise someone who's interested in a T-Bolt that a $400 CZ is an equal product is BULLSHIT because it ignores the flaws and idiosynchrasies in the CZ, which I have already enumerated. Savvy? For $400 on a CZ, you get a rifle that is accurate but will require a certain amount of finesse and the right combination of parts for each individual scope mounting. Is any of this sinking in yet? Do you need a moment to digest what you're reading? Do you need someone to read it to you? Do you need a live action diorama? For $650 or so on a T-Bolt, you get a rifle that has none of those issues. I can mount up a scope in the Browning/Talley rings and bases or Weaver rings and bases and down the road I go. THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS BY THE EXPRESSION, "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR." Is any of this clear to you? You seem to have quite a bit of difficulty grasping this most basic of concepts.
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum. I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person. The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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It's not an opinion, it's not a straight forward process of scope mounting on a CZ. That's a fact. As much as I hate to use an Internet message board as a point of reference, the fact that the girls over at rimfirecentral.com have compiled a multi-page list of how to mount a scope on a CZ for multiple mount/scope combinations says a hell of a lot. This is a point that seems to escape you: a CZ452 costs roughly $400, yet it will require a small amount of tinkering to mount a scope, the mount rail is of an inconsistent dimension (the CZ452 American is supposed to be 3/8", but is often more like 10mm or larger), the trigger needs work, and the trigger guard is a crudely formed piece of sheet metal. Iwould rather spend $700 or so right up front, mount a scope, and start shooting without trying to assemble a Rubik's cube of mount bases, rings, and scope. And then apply a half-assed fix to work over the trigger. I bought a cz 452 in the american model. I will say that accuracy wise its a heck of a shooter in the .17hmr. I am very pleased with it. All of the points you made are valid from the experiance I have had with mine. But none a big enough issue for me to abandon it as my favorite small game rifle. And I wouldn't suggest abandonment at all, but I will call someone out for suggesting the as-issued CZ is on par with an as-issued T-Bolt. I got rid of mine because I had other projects I wanted to pursue and I liked the idea of the straight-pull T-Bolt, I like the magazine design, and I've been very impressed with its out-of-the box performance.
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum. I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person. The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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Bricktop, Your immature idiot who's shown in multiple profanity laced posts that anytime someone doesn't agree your opinion is 100% right, they obviously are crazy. I'm guessing you're 18 to 25 with a limited education and real world experience, but plenty of experience pretending to be a tough guy on the internet.
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Bricktop, Your immature idiot who's shown in multiple profanity laced posts that anytime someone doesn't agree your opinion is 100% right, they obviously are crazy. I'm guessing you're 18 to 25 with a limited education and real world experience, but plenty of experience pretending to be a tough guy on the internet. I can tell when some moron can't defend their position and that moron is you. Instead of expounding upon reasons you believe prove your point, you instead resort to this weak-ass line of BULLSHIT in a patently obvious attempt at sidetracking the discussion. I won't let that happen. I explained this to my dog and even he understands the phrase "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR." Savvy? A $400 CZ is not on par with a $600+ Browning. No way, no how. My dog will be happy to explain this to you after you get done licking your own balls.
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum. I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person. The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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Last edited by Timbo; 01/08/13.
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THE one thing I've noticed about CZ Shooters. ... They have an almost cult like following. Someone doesn't like'em all the CZ'ers come outta the wood work and argue until the second coming how CZ's are the panacea of all things rimfire.
Why do you care what others think? My CZ was worth the $400 I paid for it, my Ruger 77/22 is every bit the same for the $275 I paid for it. Neither are match rifles, but both will hold their own in our local club shoots.
They are fine rifles, accurate rifles, solid rifles, good value rifles ... but they are NOT high end rifles.
George Associate Gypsy Order of Sleepless Knights ... That is when I carried you ...
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And this is proof of what, exactly, [bleep]? That you've managed to round up a few fellow circle-jerkers? And no, ignorant dickheads like you have no opinion worth sharing.
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum. I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person. The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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I can't speak for the Tbolt but Bricktop has been spot on with the CZ. I have a CZ453 and the need for high rings and a queer safety is annoying. My trigger is of the set variety and after adjustment(by me) is absolutely awesome. The bottom metal is cheap sheet metal. The CZ has its flaws but for its minimal investment, one would be hard pressed to find a more accurate rimfire wrapped in a pretty wood stock at that price point.
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And this is proof of what, exactly, [bleep]? That you've managed to round up a few fellow circle-jerkers? And no, ignorant dickheads like you have no opinion worth sharing. Ramble on minimum wage employee. Your ignorance keeps shinning through. You're burning the keyboard up in your mobile home.
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And this is proof of what, exactly, [bleep]? That you've managed to round up a few fellow circle-jerkers? And no, ignorant dickheads like you have no opinion worth sharing. Ramble on minimum wage employee. Your ignorance keeps shinning through. You're burning the keyboard up in your mobile home. No rambling, mucho mojo went over your empty little head. The meaning of "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" still escapes your dumbass. Dumbass.
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum. I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person. The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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I bought my son a T-Bolt a few years ago. It was his first rifle, and I'm hoping that he'll be happily shooting it for the rest of his life. As for me, I really like the gun and am a little jealous.  Here is a pic of his first day shooting the rifle. The LOP is too long for him, but he's grown since then: ![[Linked Image]](http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/lilredhouse/P1020806.jpg) Here is a pic of his target. It took a few shots to get the scope sighted in (it was only bore sighted before this target was shot). Not too bad for a boy's first time with a new rifle. I'm sure that the rifle will shoot one ragged-hole groups, but, granted, this target was shot at only 25 yards. ![[Linked Image]](http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/lilredhouse/P1020809.jpg)
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And this is proof of what, exactly, [bleep]? That you've managed to round up a few fellow circle-jerkers? And no, ignorant dickheads like you have no opinion worth sharing. Ramble on minimum wage employee. Your ignorance keeps shinning through. You're burning the keyboard up in your mobile home. No rambling, mucho mojo went over your empty little head. The meaning of "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" still escapes your dumbass. Dumbass. I'm sure whatever your parents bought you was a nice rifle, but they really need to monitor your internet use. Hopefully you aren't typing this from your job at Burger King. I wouldn't want to see you get fired.
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I'm sure whatever your parents bought you was a nice rifle, but they really need to monitor your internet use. Hopefully you aren't typing this from your job at Burger King. I wouldn't want to see you get fired. Once again, you're trying to derail the thread because you're unable to defend any of your staked positions. Sorry, little man, YOU REALLY DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Allow me to revisit the items that you want to ignore, dumbass. Shall we? The CZs have a very high bolt lift, meaning clearance of a scope's ocular bell is going to be an issue. You'll either need to get a scope with a sufficiently small ocular bell, locate a base and ring combination that will raise the scope high enough to clear the bolt knob or use a scope with a tube (and eye relief) long enough to permit mounting forward enough to clear the bolt knob. (I can tell you for a FACT that a Leupold Vari-XIIc 2x7 and Talley rings will NOT permit enough bolt clearance, though a Leupold Rimfire scope of any variety and Talleys will.) Then there's the matter of CZ's dovetail rail, to which a scope mount must attach. It's nominally supposed to be 3/8 on an inch (0.375") on the CZ 452 American, but it's very likely 10mm. Or 11mm. Or 13mm. Or something altogether different. Does any of this make any sense to you, little man? Any sense AT ALL? This is why mounting a scope on a CZ is a minor pain in the ass. A T-Bolt has no such scope mounting issues. Then there's the matter of the CZ trigger. Out of the box, it sucks. Period. Exclamation point. The "fixes" on "the internets" are half-assed. At best. Some people are satisfied with the outcome of shimming with rubber washers; I am not. The triggers have a lot of take up slack and a gritty, heavy let off. You can either expend man-hours of your own applying one of these fixes or install a Timney unit -- which requires inletting of the stock. No such issue with the T-Bolt. Has ANY of this turned on a light in your dim little brain yet? For the $200 or so extra of a T-Bolt, I get a rifle to which mounting a scope is not an issue and the trigger is relatively good. Savvy. THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS WHEN SOMEONE TELLS YOU "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR."
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum. I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person. The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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Have a couple old Belgium T bolts and like them quite a bit.
Acquired 2 NIB T bolts , couple years ago, in a collection buyout. Was real,pleased to have 2 NIB T bolts in the mix. One was varmint flavor one was standard.
The movement in the triggers when safety applied was disconcerting to say the least. Pulled gun apart and looked at the triggers ..made me laugh. Internet searches addressed this issue, with notes on correcting the problem.
I have replaced a lot of rifle triggers for improvement. Not going to put any money in this gun .
I traded both away without shooting.
My rimfire dollars go into Annies, Steyrs, Model 52's and many others.
Don't feel I missed anything.
Cisco
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Good stuff with your son CoalCracker  
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Have a couple old Belgium T bolts and like them quite a bit.
Acquired 2 NIB T bolts , couple years ago, in a collection buyout. Was real,pleased to have 2 NIB T bolts in the mix. One was varmint flavor one was standard.
The movement in the triggers when safety applied was disconcerting to say the least. Pulled gun apart and looked at the triggers ..made me laugh. Internet searches addressed this issue, with notes on correcting the problem.
I have replaced a lot of rifle triggers for improvement. Not going to put any money in this gun .
I traded both away without shooting.
My rimfire dollars go into Annies, Steyrs, Model 52's and many others.
Don't feel I missed anything.
Cisco Considering your "information" is derived from Internet searches and half-baked, half-assed perceptions -- vice actual hands-on technical data -- and the fact that you sold these new T-Bolts without even firing them, I believe your review can go straight into the [bleep] where it belongs. "Internet searches." What a f*cking joke.
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum. I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person. The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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I'm sure whatever your parents bought you was a nice rifle, but they really need to monitor your internet use. Hopefully you aren't typing this from your job at Burger King. I wouldn't want to see you get fired. Once again, you're trying to derail the thread because you're unable to defend any of your staked positions. Sorry, little man, YOU REALLY DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Allow me to revisit the items that you want to ignore, dumbass. Shall we? The CZs have a very high bolt lift, meaning clearance of a scope's ocular bell is going to be an issue. You'll either need to get a scope with a sufficiently small ocular bell, locate a base and ring combination that will raise the scope high enough to clear the bolt knob or use a scope with a tube (and eye relief) long enough to permit mounting forward enough to clear the bolt knob. (I can tell you for a FACT that a Leupold Vari-XIIc 2x7 and Talley rings will NOT permit enough bolt clearance, though a Leupold Rimfire scope of any variety and Talleys will.) Then there's the matter of CZ's dovetail rail, to which a scope mount must attach. It's nominally supposed to be 3/8 on an inch (0.375") on the CZ 452 American, but it's very likely 10mm. Or 11mm. Or 13mm. Or something altogether different. Does any of this make any sense to you, little man? Any sense AT ALL? This is why mounting a scope on a CZ is a minor pain in the ass. A T-Bolt has no such scope mounting issues. Then there's the matter of the CZ trigger. Out of the box, it sucks. Period. Exclamation point. The "fixes" on "the internets" are half-assed. At best. Some people are satisfied with the outcome of shimming with rubber washers; I am not. The triggers have a lot of take up slack and a gritty, heavy let off. You can either expend man-hours of your own applying one of these fixes or install a Timney unit -- which requires inletting of the stock. No such issue with the T-Bolt. Has ANY of this turned on a light in your dim little brain yet? For the $200 or so extra of a T-Bolt, I get a rifle to which mounting a scope is not an issue and the trigger is relatively good. Savvy. THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS WHEN SOMEONE TELLS YOU "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR." Keep rambling Burger King king boy. Hopefully you'll get the promotion to head fry cook and you can buy another rifle
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I'm sure whatever your parents bought you was a nice rifle, but they really need to monitor your internet use. Hopefully you aren't typing this from your job at Burger King. I wouldn't want to see you get fired. Once again, you're trying to derail the thread because you're unable to defend any of your staked positions. Sorry, little man, YOU REALLY DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Allow me to revisit the items that you want to ignore, dumbass. Shall we? The CZs have a very high bolt lift, meaning clearance of a scope's ocular bell is going to be an issue. You'll either need to get a scope with a sufficiently small ocular bell, locate a base and ring combination that will raise the scope high enough to clear the bolt knob or use a scope with a tube (and eye relief) long enough to permit mounting forward enough to clear the bolt knob. (I can tell you for a FACT that a Leupold Vari-XIIc 2x7 and Talley rings will NOT permit enough bolt clearance, though a Leupold Rimfire scope of any variety and Talleys will.) Then there's the matter of CZ's dovetail rail, to which a scope mount must attach. It's nominally supposed to be 3/8 on an inch (0.375") on the CZ 452 American, but it's very likely 10mm. Or 11mm. Or 13mm. Or something altogether different. Does any of this make any sense to you, little man? Any sense AT ALL? This is why mounting a scope on a CZ is a minor pain in the ass. A T-Bolt has no such scope mounting issues. Then there's the matter of the CZ trigger. Out of the box, it sucks. Period. Exclamation point. The "fixes" on "the internets" are half-assed. At best. Some people are satisfied with the outcome of shimming with rubber washers; I am not. The triggers have a lot of take up slack and a gritty, heavy let off. You can either expend man-hours of your own applying one of these fixes or install a Timney unit -- which requires inletting of the stock. No such issue with the T-Bolt. Has ANY of this turned on a light in your dim little brain yet? For the $200 or so extra of a T-Bolt, I get a rifle to which mounting a scope is not an issue and the trigger is relatively good. Savvy. THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS WHEN SOMEONE TELLS YOU "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR." Keep rambling Burger King king boy. Hopefully you'll get the promotion to head fry cook and you can buy another rifle No rambling, [bleep]. You're in over your head. And have been for quite some time.
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum. I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person. The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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