Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles .257 roberts

.25-06 with a 24-inch barrel and 117 to 120-gr bullets at 3,000 fps for big mule deer at 300 yards.

.257 Roberts with 22-inch barrel and 100 to 117-gr bullets at 2700 fps for whitetails and pronghorns.

.250 Savage in a light 20-inch carbine with 100-gr bullets for whitetails in the woods and up to 200 yards.

.25-35 for a woods rifle you can shoot all day, for deer inside 100 yards.

Coyote Hunter,

I 've had a couple of 257's with 22in. barrels and in my experience a load pushing a 120gr. bullet at +2900fps is right on the edge of a primer- pocket busting load. Not only that a load that hot tend to have a peaning effect on the bolt lugs, not to mention what happens to the throat of the barrel.

If I wanted to play that game I have a 24in. Shilen barreled M70 25/06 that tops 3500fps with a 100gr. bullet and a healthy dose of old H4831. Also hits 3250fps. with the 120gr. Speer.
But I choose not to hunt with those loads and back both off about 100fps. Much easer on the rifle.

I think rifles should be loaded to safe and everyday working pressure levels to hunt with. The Roberts is a very fine rd. be it ain't 25/06. Pedro

FWIW, the Federal 120g load does 2807fps in my 22" Roberts. 5-shot average.

Not necessarily.

The Federal +P 120g Partition load clocks 2807fps in my 22� rifle. That�s a 50,000 CUP load maximum (SAAMI MAP) in their test barrel, which probably has a tight chamber and a short throat, both of which increase pressure. And frankly, the odds that Federal is hitting 50,000 CUP and saying �Aha, this will be our load� are rather slim for a number of reasons. (Accuracy, consistency, allowance for temperature deviations form test conditions, etc.) Chances are much better that their loads are somewhat reduced - at least 5% would be my guess and probably a bit more. My .257 has such a long throat that I don�t even attempt to seat bullets close to the lands as they wouldn�t fit in the magazine. I think Roy Weatherby called it �freebore� in his rifles and it helped him increase velocities while keeping pressures down.

For reference:
SAAMI MAP for .257 Roberts +P == 50,000 CUP

Hogdon Annual Manual (doesn�t list a 120g bullet):
24� barrel
115g Partition, 46.0g H4831, 2760fps, 46,000 CUP
115g Partition, 43.0g H4350, 2777fps, 44,400 CUP

Barnes #3 (doesn�t list a 120g bullet or exact pressures, but are at or below SAMMI MAP):
24� barrel
115g X, 50.0g H4831, 2956fps
115g X, 45.0g H4350, 2901fps

My loads:
22� barrel
115g Barnes TSX, 48.0g H4831SC, 2958fps
115g Barnes TSX, 44.5g H4350, 3013fps
120g Speer Grand Slam, 46.5g H4831SC, 2899fps
120g Nosler Partition, 46.0g H4831SC, 2904fps


While both The Hodgdon and Barnes sources use 24� barrels and 115g bullets instead of 120�s, the Hodgdon data is well under the SAAMI +P maximum of 50,000 CUP and the Barnes data suggests my loads are reasonable. In fact, if I didn�t own a chronograph we would be looking exclusively at powder charges and spent primers.

The first thing we would discover by doing so is that my primers look fine (no different than the primers on the Federal factory loads) and that my 115g TSX loads are 2.0g under the maximum for an X bullet with H4831 and 0.5g under X bullet max for H4350. But according to Barnes when changing from an �X� to a �TSX� bullet, you should be able to increase the powder charge by up to 2.0g. My 115g TSX loads are therefore 4.0g below what Barnes suggests is the safe maximum for H4831 and 2.5g below for H4350. Are my 115g TSX loads running dangerously high pressures? The evidence would suggest otherwise.


The TSX bullets sit much deeper in the case than the Grand Slams or Partitions, which would increase pressure, but much or all of that pressure increase is offset by the grooves in the TSX which reduce pressure. Let�s call it a wash. Take a look at my 120g Grand Slam and Partition loads and you�ll see they are, respectively, 1.5g and 2.0g below my 115g TSX/H4831 load, which in turn is 2.0 to 4.0g below Barnes recommended maximum for the 115g TSX/H4831 combination. Are my 120g/H4831 loads running dangerously high pressures? Again the evidence would suggest otherwise.

There are quite a number of 54,000 CUP cartridges that are factory chambered in the Ruger action and I really doubt my .257 Roberts loads approach that level. The primers look good and I think the loads are quite safe in my rifle, but obviously I cannot make any representations about my loads in other rifles.



I seriously doubt I�m doing any more damage than would occur with any 52,000 CUP cartridge � like a .243Win, 7mm-08, 7mm Mag, etc., and probably less than a 54,000 CUP cartridge like a .300 Win Mag. Or a 53,000 CUP cartridge like a .25-06. Given the length of the throat on my Ruger, probably not much damage to it at all. The last 100-yard 3-shot group, a couple weekends ago, measured 0.232� center-to-center or less than one bullet diameter.




After searching my load books your .25-06 loads would seem to be over maximum by 150-200fps. As seen above in my analysis of my .257 loads, though, velocity alone does not tell the whole story. Care to share the load specifics?




I agree on all counts. I would contend that my .257 Roberts (50,000 CUP SAAMI MAP) is probably loaded to lower pressures than your working loads for the .25-06 (53,000 CUP SAAMI MAP) and that therefore my rifle will last longer than yours. And that my loads are probably safer than yours.

Would you agree?

When I went through there just after Christmas, they had two of them on the end of the south(I think) rack. I really like the one my son and I share, really should get another so we each have one.

For the record here's my loads in two different 25/06s.
A 24in. Shilen barrel of an old M70 Win.
All Win. brass & CCI #200 primers.
100gr. Hornady/ 56.5grs. of old H4831=3510fps.
120gr. Speer SP/54rs. of old H4831=3250fps
These seem to be completely safe and do not loosen the primer pockets after several firings, however I choose to back off on each a full grain of powder as the aminal never knows the difference and with the group size at 300yds. the drop difference at 300yds is not decernable.
Another 25/06 I have is an FN mauser with a Rem. 25/06 barrel, threads cut off, retheraded and chambered again, barrel ending up at 23ins. An Ohler chronograph was used.
This 23in. barreled gun takes 1 1/2grs. more powder and loses about 75-85fps.
I have tried R22 in both rifles but can't get it to group.
The two 257's I have had both had 22in. barrels. One a Shilen and the other a Douglas. With those rifles when the velocity got higher then then 2850fps/120gr. bullet and either H4831 or IMR4350 the bolts would start to get sticky or primer pockets would loosen after 2 or 3 loadings. Infact the often quoted load of 45grs. of 4350 /120gr. bullet in one rifle gave 2810fps if I remember correctly.

BTW, who says the 25/06 is loaded to 53,000lbs. Rem. factory load in my 24in. barreled gun gave only 3225fps with a 100gr. bullet. I personally feel the 25/06 is under loaded.

I also have a 25 Souper with a 22in. barrel and it has matched any velocities I was able to get from the two Roberts I owned. I like the Souper in a short action better and if I build on a long action I 'll go with the 06 case. I expect a good case could be made for a 257Wby. on a long action but that's a whole other story.

To answer your question first, the SAAMI pressure standard for the .25-06 is 53,000 CUP. That does not mean the various vendors of factory ammo load right up to that pressure and in fact they would be unwise to do so since their ammunition will be going into a wide variety of firearms under very diverse temperatures from extreme cold and heat. Not only will various firearms exhibit different pressures, the heat and cold can both cause dramatic differences in pressure as well. In other words, a 53,000 CUP load that is safe in their test barrel might well be much higher in pressure in field use.

Looking at your load data and comparing it to the .25-06 data I have available:

100g
3510fps, 56.5g H4831 = your load, 24� barrel,
3391fps, 58.5g H4831 = Barnes #3 XLC bullet (lubricated X), 24� barrel,
3290fps, 53.5g IMR4831= Nosler 5th, 24� barrel,
3242fps, 55.0g H4831 = Barnes #3 X bullet, 24� barrel,
3172fps, 54.3g H4831 = Hodgdon Annual Manual, 24� barrel, 51,400 CUP
3140fps, 56.0g H4831= Speer #12, 24� barrel,
3100fps, 55.4g H4831 = Hornady 6th, 24� barrel

120g (115g Barnes X)
3250fps, 54.0g H4831 = your load, 24� barrel,
3090fps, 52.0g IMR4831= Nosler 5th, 24� barrel,
3042fps, 52.0g H4831 = Barnes #3 115g X bullet, 24� barrel,
2856fps, 51.5g H4831 = Hodgdon Annual Manual, 24� barrel, 51,200 CUP
2738fps, 47.0g H4831= Speer #12, 24� barrel,
3000fps, 54.3g H4831 = Hornady 6th, 24� barrel
unavailable = Barnes #3 XLC bullet (lubricated X) , 24� barrel,


FWIW

Coyote Hunter -

My M700 Classic .257R with 24-inch barrel steams out the Federal 120 and the Hornady Light Magnums very well, but to me it is not the ideal size for a .257, but more of a .25-06 sized rifle. A Kimber 84 or Model 70 Featherweight is more of a .257 Roberts size for me.

I would take a Model 7 Mannlicher in .250 Savage in a heartbeat.

they got a mannlicher stocked mini 14 there on the used rack..looked pretty cool..

Robert..

I think I see a pattern here, your going by the reloading manuals as gospel truth and not actually shooting for velocities yourself. Have you actually chronographed the loads in your Roberts or are they from a book? Not trying to be smart here but something to consider.

The pattern you see is the manuals I have that list H4831 powder.

My .257 Roberts velocities are chronographed. Don't have a .25-06.