24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
R
RickyD Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
I just bought one of these off Gunbroker today. Stainless 5.5" barrel with 45 Colt and 45 ACP cylinder. I'm strongly thinking about having the ACP cylinder bored out for a Rowland. Just occured to me that maybe it will not be necessary as the ACP must headspace on the rim, being in moon clips. So there may not be any restriction preventing a Rowland from fitting. Anyone know?

Another, cheaper, way would be to just trim some Rowland brass. The web should be stronger than conventional 45 ACP brass.

It seems I've heard of a lot of guys having their 45 Colt cylinders bored out a bit for better fit with hard cast. Can anyone fill in some blanks about what that is all about and do all Rugers need this done?

Thanks!


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
GB1

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,311
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,311
RickyD,

I don't have a Bisley Convertable (Yet!). But pretty positive acp headspaces off of the case mouth and there is no way to get a moon clip in there.

I would go with 45 Super Brass for hot loads (which is the same length as 45 acp brass) as it is stronger than acp brass. Not sure that Rowland brass is any stronger (than 45 Super?) only longer to prevent it from accidently/catastrophically being chambered in an acp gun. Personally I would use the 45 Colt for the hot loads and use the acp cylinder for the miscellanea of acp I have around.

Jerry

Last edited by jerrywoodswalker; 01/30/13.

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
R
RickyD Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Thanks Jerry. I'll consider that 45 Super brass idea. I was hoping to be able to use Rowland brass as I have a bunch of that for a 1911 conversion. Maybe the Ruger doesn't use moon clips, just thought it would. Probably a bad assumption since the cylinder doesn't swing out like a double action.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
W
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
Originally Posted by RickyD
Maybe the Ruger doesn't use moon clips, just thought it would. Probably a bad assumption since the cylinder doesn't swing out like a double action.


It doesn't use moon clips and you said the reason why--its cylinder doesn't swing out for loading. It is a "one-chamber-at-a-time" proposition.

I have one of these exact same guns. I purchased mine NIB after a local dealer knocked the dust off it to see what it was. I don't know if you have shot it yet but my ACP cylinder would not even chamber a loaded round and that was because the throats were too tight--they speced about .449". I sent it back to Ruger and they sort of fixed the problem. The throats on both cylinders now spec .451". I would prefer them be a little larger for loading cast bullets though. When using bullets sized .452-.453" I still have a difficult time getting the cartridges to seat all the way into the chamber. Looks like I will end up sending the cylinders out for reaming.

I know it wasn't exactly in line with your question but I figured it would be some helpful FYI.

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,661
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,661
Any idea what the chamber pressure is on a .460 Rowland? It may exceed what a Blackhawk is designed for.

IC B2

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Originally Posted by KevinGibson
Any idea what the chamber pressure is on a .460 Rowland? It may exceed what a Blackhawk is designed for.


HIGHLY doubtful.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,059
M
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
M
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,059
Per wikipedia, the 460 Rowland operates at 40K lbs-psi.

I think the plussed-up 45 Colt loads for Rugers generally run in the 25K psi range.

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
R
RickyD Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Quote
I know it wasn't exactly in line with your question but I figured it would be some helpful FYI.
It was sure close enough to in line and I do appreciate your post and info. That's surprising Ruger would put out undersized cylinders. Now if I have such issues I'll be prepared. Thanks.

And it doesn't really matter in my choice to buy. I've wanted to try one of these for a while, and now's a good time.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
R
RickyD Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Per wikipedia, the 460 Rowland operates at 40K lbs-psi.

I think the plussed-up 45 Colt loads for Rugers generally run in the 25K psi range.
I know guys do conversions on S&W 45 ACP's to Rowland. I was supposing the Rugers' were still stronger than the Smith's. Maybe not so anymore, or the guys with the Smith conversions are courting trouble?

Still not a deal breaker. I know I'll enjoy the Bisley even if it can only do two cartridges. wink


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,311
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,311
"I think the plussed-up 45 Colt loads for Rugers generally run in the 25K psi range."

Running from a faulty memory here, but it seems I have heard 30K PSI... which is still under the 40K of the Rowland.

Jerry

Last edited by jerrywoodswalker; 01/30/13.

Si vis pacem, para bellum
IC B3

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,059
M
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
M
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,059
You're estimate is probably closer than mine.

My Speer manual indicates 25K CUP on the Ruger Only loads. But I don't know how 25K CUP correlates in PSI.

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
R
RickyD Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
I found this article written by John Linebaugh, regarding Ruger Blackhawk/Bisley strength, both cylinder and frame. The below is a small portion of the entire article. He offers a lot of min/max loads as well as his personal favorites. Lots more, too, and well worth the read.

I'm sure excerpts from this site and the link has been posted many times, but such good information from a man of such incredible knowledge on the subject bears re-posting often.

I'll be leaving my Bisley alone, unless for accuracy. There might be room but not enough.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

This material is not about Colt SAA, Dakotas, or any other import. These are fine guns in their own realm, but require safe, carefully assembled handloads of much LESS PRESSURE than we are talking about in the Ruger Revolvers.

AGAIN, ALL THE INFORMATION IN THIS REPORT PERTAINS ONLY TO NEW MODEL RUGER SINGLE ACTION BISLEY OR BLACKHAWK REVOLVERS.

How strong are the Ruger Blackhawk and Bisley model revolvers? Reports from the prestigious H.P White laboratory prove to us that most American Made revolvers offer approximately 100% safety factor with current Industry standard pressure level ammunition. Example: The .44 magnum is loaded to 40,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure). H.P White's lab reports states that the Ruger Super Blackhawk was destroyed in a controlled test at approximately double that pressure. (80,000 CUP) The Smith and Wesson Model 29, also in .44 magnum caliber showed comparable results. Today we have stronger guns chambered for the .44 magnum (Redhawk prime example) but the Model 29 S&W and the Ruger Blackhawk gave life to the .44 magnum cartridge. The strength and design of these guns satisfied the industry at the time (1955) and the standards were set from these firearms. By careful measurement and a little simple mathematics we find that the Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt caliber is approximately 80 % as strong as the Blackhawk in .44 magnum caliber. Some may argue that the .45 Colts usually are fitted with fluted cylinders while the new .44 Rugers are nearly all unfluted. Exceptions to this rule are Flatop .44 magnum Rugers, THE GUN THAT WAS MADE FIRST BY RUGER FOR THE .44 MAGNUM ROUND. Lately Ruger has produced some special run of guns in .44 Magnum chambering that again have the fluted cylinder feature. Also a few early Bisleys were fitted with FLUTED cylinders in .44 caliber. However most were unfluted roll marked cylinders. But the most important factor we have found here is there is very little difference in strength between a fluted and non-fluted cylinder. The strength of the cylinder can vary more from the quality of the material and the tensile strength of the part due to different points of hardness. When steel is heat treated it can easily vary a couple of points. This is only a few thousand pounds of tensile strength but this is likely to mean more to absolute strength than the difference in the design of the part in the argument between "fluted" or NON-Fluted". The important fact is that the initial part (in this case the cylinder) was OVER ENGINEERED to account for these variables. They are amply strong to safely handle any safe load. To DEFINE SAFE: ANY LOAD THAT DOES NOT EXCEED THE INDUSTRY'S RECOMMENDED MAXIMUM OPERATIONAL PRESSURE.. In the case of the .44 magnum, this is 40,000 CUP. Not to exceed 43,500 ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM.

The Ruger Blackhawks and Bisley models chambered for .45 Colt are approximately 80% as strong as the same Ruger chambered for .44 magnum. This means we can load the .45 Colt to 80% of the pressure of the .44 Magnum round and still maintain the 100% safety level. 80% of 40,000 is 32,000.

To check our findings we again turned to H.P White Labs and their findings paralleled ours. Ruger Blackhawks in .45 Colt caliber were destroyed in controlled test conditions at approximately 60,000 CUP pressure levels.

We went further on our own here and purposely destroyed several cylinders with loads that were later pressure tested in Industry Standard Pressure barrels that proved pressures were in the area of 60,000 CUP. Now that we know just how strong the guns are we are working with perhaps you figure you can heat up the a loads a bit. Such "logical thinking" jaspers will get a REAL LOAD. Overloading often times does no visible harm, but stress and fatigue go unnoticed till something lets go. In this era when shooters and hunters are looked over very critically we need safe responsible hunters, shooters and HANDLOADERS. THIS MEANS YOU!

FRAME STRENGTH

Here at Linebaugh Custom Sixguns we build some of the most powerful handguns in the world. All of our guns at this time are built exclusively on the Ruger Blackhawk frames. (Ruger Super Blackhawk, Blackhawk and Bisley models are all identical. All frames in the new model that was introduced in 1973 are the same.) In all of my findings the first part to let go in a revolver is the cylinder. I have tested cylinders from purposely bulging them to total destruction. In all cases the frames were not damaged until the cylinder totally failed. When a firearm is fired there is pressure on the base of the bullet to propel it out the barrel. There is an equal rearward thrust against the case head and thus transferred onto the action of the firearm. This is known as CASE HEAD THRUST. Case head thrust is CHAMBER PRESSURE x THE SURFACE AREA OF THE DIAMETER OF THE REAR OF THE CHAMBER. I won't go into great detail but a 45 Colt at 32,000 CUP chamber pressure exerts just under 3 tons of pressure on the back of the frame. A .44 magnum at 40,000 CUP chamber pressure exerts just over 3 tons of pressure on the back of the frame. Basically the same.

When we fire one of our .475 or .500 caliber revolvers we hit the Ruger frame with approximately 5 tons of pressure, (thrust). This duplicates the thrust of a .458 Win Mag. In testing and building over 200 major caliber revolvers on Ruger frames we have never yet had a frame move,stretch or bend. They are very tough. The cylinder is the first part to let go.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

557 members (007FJ, 1badf350, 10gaugemag, 1234, 16penny, 12344mag, 57 invisible), 2,589 guests, and 1,354 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,191,464
Posts18,471,337
Members73,934
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.110s Queries: 14 (0.002s) Memory: 0.8526 MB (Peak: 0.9444 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-04-26 22:31:54 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS