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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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Hello Campfire, I'm thinking about loading some 115gr Hornady XTP in my Sig P238. Has anyone here loaded any 115's in 380acp and if so what did you think? Thanks.... 
randy..
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hello Campfire, I'm thinking about loading some 115gr Hornady XTP in my Sig P238. Has anyone here loaded any 115's in 380acp and if so what did you think? Thanks.... I wouldn't. The bullet will sit too deep in the case and possibly cause a pressure spike.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I seem to recall one of my older reload manuals actually had loads listed for 115gr in the 380, I'll have to see If I can find it. Speeds will likely be around 800 fps at best.
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Hodgdon manual 26.
Has 380 loads up to the 124gr bullet.
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Unique looks like one of the better powders for the 115gr.
Starting load, 3.3 gr, 800 fps
Max load, 3.5 gr, 832 fps.
Test gun was a PPK-S, 3.2" bbl.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I carry 115 gr JHP handloads in my Kahr P380 using Power Pistol in a load I worked up.
2.85 gr minimum powder charge to keep from jamming.
5.2 gr recoil is really obnoxious.
I carry somewhere in between.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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Thanks looks like I need to pickup some Unique and Pistol powder and give it a try with my chronograph. would like to get up to 900fps safely if a can't will just go back to the 95gr bullets...
randy..
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I've done extensive load workups/tests with heavier bullets in 380, and frankly, it's a waste of time and components unless you just want to tinker.
To get any velocity, you need to load at max or above-max powder charges. In my experience you can't get sufficient velocity with 115 gr or heavier JHP's to give reliable expansion, and if they do expand, penetration sucks. By reliable expansion, I mean the bullet actually expands as designed in at least 7 out of 10 rounds tested. Most people who reload 380 with bigger bullets never do the penetration/expansion tests. Or they fire one bullet into wet newsprint and it expands, so they figure they're GTG.
For defensive purposes, this is inadequate performance any way you slice it. You're better off working with a lighter JRN bullet which will at least give you some penetration.
Last edited by DocRocket; 02/27/13.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Yeah, Doc has it right; you're not going to get a 115 to expand in a .380. But then, I don't typically expect or even want expansion from my .380's. The cartridge is very minimal to begin with, and it's not likely you're going to get expansion AND penetration from any load. So if I have to choose between the two, I'll take penetration every time. So that means that often I just carry FMJ's in my .380's and .32 ACP's. But that's just me.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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I would try the LEE 105 grs SWC, which is for .357 / .38 cal guns, and is in spite of this recommended for the 9 mm ...
Hermann
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Problem I ran into with SWC's in 380's is that the fixed-barrel design makes for some iffy feeding of anything but round-ogive bullets.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire Outfitter
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DocRocket
I've done extensive load workups/tests with heavier bullets in 380, and frankly, it's a waste of time and components unless you just want to tinker.
To get any velocity, you need to load at max or above-max powder charges. In my experience you can't get sufficient velocity with 115 gr or heavier JHP's to give reliable expansion, and if they do expand, penetration sucks. By reliable expansion, I mean the bullet actually expands as designed in at least 7 out of 10 rounds tested. Most people who reload 380 with bigger bullets never do the penetration/expansion tests. Or they fire one bullet into wet newsprint and it expands, so they figure they're GTG.
For defensive purposes, this is inadequate performance any way you slice it. You're better off working with a lighter JRN bullet which will at least give you some penetration.
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KevinGibson
Yeah, Doc has it right; I have been doing overload testing on 6 different 380 pistols. They are capable of sustained fire it three very different power levels based on: 1) Chamber wall thickness 2) feed ramp intrusion into case support 3) slide and barrel mass 4) recoil spring force 5) barrel length Low power Between factory 380 and factory 9mm performance, if one could live with the recoil. 1) Kel-Tec P3AT 90 gr Gold Dot 1100 fps average 2) Ruger LCP Medium power factory 9mm +P+ performance, if one could live with the recoil. 3) Jennings Bryco model 38 4) Kahr P380 High power factory 357mag performance, if one could live with the recoil. 5) Beretta 1934 6) Husqvarna 1907 [1187 fps 158 gr cast or XTP] What makes the Kahr so good, is that there are trade offs between those pistols, but it may be the best for carry: 1) chamber wall thickness .063" [~ double the little guys] 2) case support .175" [perfect] 3) slide and barrel mass .0126 slugs [better than the little guys] 4) recoil spring force x travel = 0.8 foot pounds to return to battery [recoil energy also goes into hand movement + cocking + slide friction][ double the little guys] 5) barrel length is 2.53" [not so good, but more length will do nothing, as the pistol is recoil limited.]
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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DocRocket
I've done extensive load workups/tests with heavier bullets in 380, and frankly, it's a waste of time and components unless you just want to tinker.
To get any velocity, you need to load at max or above-max powder charges. In my experience you can't get sufficient velocity with 115 gr or heavier JHP's to give reliable expansion, and if they do expand, penetration sucks. By reliable expansion, I mean the bullet actually expands as designed in at least 7 out of 10 rounds tested. Most people who reload 380 with bigger bullets never do the penetration/expansion tests. Or they fire one bullet into wet newsprint and it expands, so they figure they're GTG.
For defensive purposes, this is inadequate performance any way you slice it. You're better off working with a lighter JRN bullet which will at least give you some penetration.
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KevinGibson
Yeah, Doc has it right; I have been doing overload testing on 6 different 380 pistols. They are capable of sustained fire it three very different power levels based on: 1) Chamber wall thickness 2) feed ramp intrusion into case support 3) slide and barrel mass 4) recoil spring force 5) barrel length Low power can get 90 gr to 1100 fps with handloads at the thresold of case bulge Buffalo Bore +P 380 claims this performance, but may only be 1050 fps 1) Kel-Tec P3AT 2) Ruger LCP Medium power 3) Jennings Bryco model 38 4) Kahr P380 High power in excess of the hottest factory 357 mag ammo for that barrel length [If one could live with the recoil] 5) Beretta 1934 6) Husqvarna 1907 [1187 fps 158 gr cast or XTP] What makes the Kahr so good, is that there are trade offs between those pistols, but it may be the best for carry: 1) chamber wall thickness .063" [~ double the little guys] 2) case support .175" [perfect] 3) slide and barrel mass .0126 slugs [better than the little guys] 4) recoil spring force x travel = 0.8 foot pounds to return to battery [recoil energy also goes into hand movement + cocking + slide friction][ double the little guys] 5) barrel length is 2.53" [not so good, but more length will do nothing, as the pistol is recoil limited.] Where does the PP and PPK fit that list in your Opinion? Hermann
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Campfire Outfitter
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Where does the PP and PPK fit that list in your Opinion?
Hermann Measure these and I may be able to tell you: 1) Chamber wall thickness [measure the thinnest spot with dial calipers]
2) feed ramp intrusion into case support [Put and empty case into the barrel and trace the outline of the feed ramp scratching with a needle. Then measure with dial calipers from the base of the case to the peak of the ramp arc scratch]
3) slide and barrel mass [Put them on a mail scale. I don't need it in slugs, I can take it in ounces or grams.]
4) recoil spring force [Tie a string to the trigger guard. While gripping the slide, lift weights with the string until you have found one that just barely starts of open the action. Find another that just barely keeps the action pulled all the way back. Record both weights. I don't need that force in Newtons, I can take pounds]
5) barrel length [measure with a ruler or look it up]
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Here's a pretty good write up. http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/380-autoI load 100 grain cast RNFP's in mine with AA#5. They're intended for the .38 Special and are sized .357. They have to be set deep because of the location of the lube groove, (.925 OAL) but my LCP gobbles 'em up anyway. ![[Linked Image]](http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h225/FalMike/380fpjpg.jpg)
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I think that's about as good a load as you can use in a 380, Bristoe. How much AA #5, and how fast they runnin'?
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I think that's about as good a load as you can use in a 380, Bristoe. How much AA #5, and how fast they runnin'? I don't remember. I loaded up a ziplock bag of them about a year ago after reading the posted article,..and I know I used AA#5 because I bought some just for them. The article calls for 5 grains max with a jacketed 90 grain bullet. I'm guessing I went 4.5 grains with the deep seated 100 grain cast. I haven't shot any across the chronograph, but from the data I've seen, I'm guessing they're close to 1000 fps. I had some factory Federal 95 grain hardball that I was shooting with them, which is the hottest non specialty load I could find, and the recoil seemed about the same.
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Campfire Outfitter
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The Buffalo Bore 90gr 380 +P claims 1100 fps from a P3At but chronographs at 1050 fps.
When I put 6 gr Power Pistol 90 gr Gold Dot .97" I get 1100 fps from P3AT, but that is at the threshold of case bulges with the .29" feed ramp intrusion of my P3AT.
That represents the light weight class of 380s that I have defined above.
The middle weight can take more.
The thick case wall, heavy slide, good case support 380 can out perform the 357 mag, as I have outlined above.
There is not a worse powder you could choose for a 380 with poor case support than AA#5.
It is peaky.
You want a forgiving powder, like Power Pistol.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I have loaded and fired 124 grain wheelweight cast bullets originally designed for 9mm from 380. No problems.
As to the 380, i sent over the weekend an article out of ken watters pet loads to a friend of mine on the 380 and the popular idea it's kind of wimpy.
He was getting ten inches of penetration when he wrote the article.
He didn't think it was so bad.
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