|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,390 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,390 Likes: 1 |
And the cops went to the powerful .38 Special in the earlier part of the 20th Century because their .32's wouldn't reliably stop a certain cocaine crazed segment of society at the time. 
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,773 Likes: 21
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,773 Likes: 21 |
And the cops went to the powerful .38 Special in the earlier part of the 20th Century because their .32's wouldn't reliably stop a certain cocaine crazed segment of society at the time. The US Military switched to the .45 slug when they found that the round nose 38 Long Colt was ineffective against the Moros during the Philippine�American War.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,220
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,220 |
My wife is tiny, 103#, and enjoys shooting 'her' 16 oz revolver with my target load, 148 gr. wadcutter ($43/500), 3.5 gr., Win 231, which I've chrono'ed at 775 fps - this is the most accurate load I've found with my S&W 52-2. And she also has the 125 gr. XTP's loaded at 5.4 gr for SD. I'm happy with this combination.
I load the SD rounds in nickel cases and the target rounds in plain brass, this way regardless of which target bullets I try she will always know which are her SD rounds.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,390 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,390 Likes: 1 |
I remember reading about that in the newspapers.  My post was more a commentary on the changing perceptions of what it takes to be an effective self defense weapon. Folks once thought themselves very well armed with 2 shot derringers, now if a handgun doesn't hold more than a dozen rounds many folks consider it completely inadequate. The opening sentence of this thread mentions that the .38 Special is a fairly mild load whereas at one time it was considered quite the powerful load for police use. Times change.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,735
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,735 |
The 38SP is a fairly mild round and is the biggest my wife can or will shoot. So, I am trying to reload some SD rounds and want decent ammo. I like lead bullets just cause they are cheap and right now can actually be purchased! Pretty much everything else is not avaiable/back ordered/etc.
Looking at 125gr HP vs 158gr HP, which I can buy today.
Have to stay under +P pressures for her revolver, which limits velocity. I have lots of primers and a selection of various pistol powders.
What is your pick between only these two choices? I know it's not what you're asking for and that you apparently have ruled it out on cost basis, but I have tested Barnes 125 grain TAC-XP bullets and they expand well down into the 38 special range, and they penetrated decently at that. Much better than the jacketed lead I tried.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806 |
As a rule, hard cast bullets are going to lead more at low velocities than softer bullets because the hard bullets don't upset and fill the grooves as easily. Then you can get gas cutting.
But lead fouling is pretty easy to remove. I use 0000 steel wool with some light oil or WD40 on a jag. There use to be a patch sold that was cloth with something like a paraffin treatment on it that was really effective too.
Me, I'd just get whatever 158 LSWC and not worry too much about the cleaning. You gotta do it anyway.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,390 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,390 Likes: 1 |
Since you are a handloader you have some leeway in velocity levels, but one factor to consider is the changing point of impact between the two bullet weights.
If your .38 has adjustable sights then that's a non-issue but if they are fixed, then most of them will be regulated for 158 grain loads.
As a for instance, my SP101 would shoot 158 gr. bullets from both .357 Magnum and .38 Special loads to prettymuch the same point of impact right on top of the front sight despite the wide spread in muzzle velocity. That same revolver would put 125 grain bullets a full 14" low at 15 yards. I would not have believed that POI could vary so much had I not seen it.
Could be a moot point depending on your situation but thought it should be mentioned.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,557
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,557 |
In the 38, the FBI load is the clear choice for SD. Of the two mentioned by the OP, there is not a clear choice. The 38sp 125 JHP +P would be my choice over the 158gr lead RN. I shoot both and the 125 performs great. But, I would not rely on it to expand and penetrate in a non +P load.
/2 cents
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,773 Likes: 21
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,773 Likes: 21 |
The opening sentence of this thread mentions that the .38 Special is a fairly mild load whereas at one time it was considered quite the powerful load for police use.
Times change. That's true. "Special" meant extra powerful.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
The 38SP is a fairly mild round and is the biggest my wife can or will shoot. So, I am trying to reload some SD rounds and want decent ammo. I like lead bullets just cause they are cheap and right now can actually be purchased! Pretty much everything else is not avaiable/back ordered/etc.
Looking at 125gr HP vs 158gr HP, which I can buy today.
Have to stay under +P pressures for her revolver, which limits velocity. I have lots of primers and a selection of various pistol powders.
What is your pick between only these two choices? I will take a 158 gr SWC HP in a short barrel 38 SPL any day over a 125 gr than might or might not open up from the short barrel revolver
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,698
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,698 |
I pack the Buffalo Bore 150 gr. hard cast full wadcutter factory loaded to give 860 fps from a 2" barrel at standard pressure in my Airweight J-frame M38 Bodyguard. That load will do a lot of things well in that lightweight shorty. In a 3" or 4" steel K-frame the Buffalo Bore 158 gr. +P soft lead gas checked semi-wadcutter hollowpoint will run over 1,100 fps and gets packed into the cylinder for potential serious uses. That last load is probably more than your wife would want to deal with but the first one is fairly mild.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 203
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 203 |
I'm with SH on this find a load at about 800 fps + 158 that shoots good, load up a shoe box full, when she can keep em on a eyeball sized target across the room, project over.
Then if she feels that a little more zip is needed she will be ready
to handle them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20,494
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20,494 |
I wouldn't worry about point of impact changes between the two. If it is for self defense, ranges are going to be short, and a couple inches means nothing at ten yards or so. Our service weapons were fixed sight model 10 heavy barrels, and they were allegedly zeroed at 25 yards. They shot fine at any distance from contact to 50 yards. Centre mass is what the target is, and that allows for some leeway.
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)
Brother Keith
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667 |
The 38SP is a fairly mild round and is the biggest my wife can or will shoot. So, I am trying to reload some SD rounds and want decent ammo. I like lead bullets just cause they are cheap and right now can actually be purchased! Pretty much everything else is not avaiable/back ordered/etc.
Looking at 125gr HP vs 158gr HP, which I can buy today.
Have to stay under +P pressures for her revolver, which limits velocity. I have lots of primers and a selection of various pistol powders.
What is your pick between only these two choices? For standard pressure loads, skip the hollow points. Standard pressure .38 Special may exhibit some issues with bullet expansion. But even if you got the bullet to expand, you're probatly going to seriously limit penetration. Best compromise load is a 148 grain solid wadcutter loaded to max stnadard pressures. Taht will give you full caliber wounds, and more than adequate penetration even if they're wearing heavy clothing. Don't do the 158 SWC, you want all the meplat you can get, just go with the 148. If I were home cooking defense loads for the .38 special, I'd pickup a 148 grain full wadcutter bullet mold, and load up a bunch of the stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,754 Likes: 5
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,754 Likes: 5 |
I know I'm old school, but traditional FBI .38 +P load still works well. 158 grain LSWCHP at around 900 to 950 fps. This is great stopping load, and it penetrates well.
I have never trusted high speed, low bullet weight loads.
Sam......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 915
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 915 |
Just picked up a sweet pre-model #10 (1948 - 1951) and read up about the loads.
Same research we all have avalible, equates to nothing compared to experience.
But the sum of the research on the .38 SP is that keeping your head in a fight will prevail over someone that loses their head.
Shooting someone with a .38 will definitely piss them off.
Thus they get mad, lose their head, and be easily defeated!
If fate chooses me to prove the theroy, so be it.
I feel blessed to not have first hand experience, and will go with the Sheriff Joe on this one.
As well as the experance here!
We know Sheriff Joe is extremely old-school, he believes the .38 in a revolver served it's purpose for a long time!
Clinging to my God, and my guns!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 907
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 907 |
My opinion only, and I don't have the experience of most here, but I don't much like the idea of hollow points in a somewhat marginal round .
agreed
A fool uttereth all his mind - Proverbs 29:11
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,282
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,282 |
Let me tell you what I do. I cast this bullet from pure lead: ![[Linked Image]](http://leeprecision.com/images/P/p-53.jpg) DC 358-158-RF In pure lead, properly lubed you don't have to worry about leading under 900 fps. If you do get a bit of leading in an SD gun who cares. I use only White Label lubes. http://www.lsstuff.com/I use a small amount of the X-lube and tumble them. Then I run them through a Lee .358 sizer. Lee liquid alox is the same thing. Then I use the 45-45-10 lube and put on a coat. Often I will double that coat. Then I load them with 4 grains of AA#2. No lead in my guns, but I don't shoot many of them.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,250 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,250 Likes: 4 |
All I know is 148 gr wadcutters out of a snubbie don't stop a big, pissed off raccoon worth spit. I wouldn't feel well armed with that combo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
The 38SP is a fairly mild round and is the biggest my wife can or will shoot. So, I am trying to reload some SD rounds and want decent ammo. I like lead bullets just cause they are cheap and right now can actually be purchased! Pretty much everything else is not avaiable/back ordered/etc.
Looking at 125gr HP vs 158gr HP, which I can buy today.
Have to stay under +P pressures for her revolver, which limits velocity. I have lots of primers and a selection of various pistol powders.
What is your pick between only these two choices? I'm going to assume that she's carrying a revolver with a barrel less than three inches, since that's your typical "carry .38." Don't depend on expansion, especially since you're not loading to +p pressures. It's just not going to happen. Not enough barrel length to develop the velocity you need for that. The next best way to go is a destructive meplat, i.e., a front of the bullet shaped such as to inflict the maximum damage without depending on expansion. You want to avoid a "bullet shape," and prefer a blunt, broad, sharp edged, and flat, shape. The very best in this regard is the 148 grain target wadcutter. Only problem with that is that when you push them to normal self-defense velocities (beyond typical target load pressures) you get really bad leading of the bore, for one thing, and the blunt meplat quickly gives way on impact. The solution is "hard cast" lead. Buffalo Bore produces a load just like this, designed specifically for snub nose revolvers. It's expensive, but then you will not likely be target shooting with them. They are generally going to be kept in the gun while carried, but not used up at the range, so might as well take the plunge and get them. Here's a link. I approve this message.  I carry the Buffalo Bore in my snubbie and shoot cheap. And since . . . ![[Linked Image]](http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/nopics.gif) ![[Linked Image]](http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s33/orangeokie/pix149863703.jpg) 
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
|
|
|
|
|
543 members (06hunter59, 16penny, 16gage, 160user, 10gaugeman, 1beaver_shooter, 60 invisible),
2,795
guests, and
1,238
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,624
Posts18,492,811
Members73,977
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/TIrkH2C.jpg)
