Home Forums Fishing Saltwater When are 2 outboards better than one?

I got into an arguement with some of the folks at the rod and gun today about when it's better to have two outboards. Guy was talking about a 26' regulator with a 250. I've seen them with twin 200's. I've got a 21' sailfish with a 150. The 23 has a wider transom because they offer the twins as an option. I'd imagine anything bigger, especially going out to sea would be better off with two outboards. When do you make the decision to go with two?

When you grow up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just kidding.

I've never owned a twin engine boat, but my next one will have twins.

I've gone over 250 miles (one way) with a single engine boat, but not straight out into the ocean. There's a lot to be said for a good single engine boat. It's easier to maintain, cheaper, lighter, fewer things to break, etc. However, both my single engine boats have had 9.9hp kickers too. Besides providing a slow ride home, a kicker can try and keep your bow into the seas if things get really bad with no main engine.

I guess the obvious answer for when to get twin outboards is when you need more than 300hp. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I got spoiled last summer, driving twin engine boats at work. These were not outboards, but inboard diesels. Now that I've experienced the convience of twins while manuevering in tight quarters, I don't want to go back to a single engine boat. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Of course that doesn't apply to a small skiff, say 20-22ft. A single is still going to be the best bet in that case.

Since bad fuel is often a cause of engine problems, you really need to maintain the fuel system in order to enjoy the benefit of redundancy offered by twins.

Twin outboards mounted close together won't offer much help in the way of manuevering as compared to a single engine, or so I've been told. But, that's the way they have to be mounted on most 'vee' hull boats.

Just my thoughts, probably didn't answer your question.

The short answer is when you can write the check. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Ask the Single guys if they have ever had an engine failure 25 miles off shore. IMO two is almost always better on anything over 25'. I can't imagine that once you have counter rotating twins you would ever think that they don't offer more manuverability. I can think of a few examples I would rather have a single but mostly on smaller applications with HP and weight restrictions. Many 200's and 225's run at a higher rpm so a single 250 might be preferable for a lot of guys. Fuel capacity and expense are likely contributing factors. If fuel capacity and cost are out of the equation I would certainly take twin 150's over a single 250.

the marina where I keep my boat is the countries largest dealer of Reglators , they regularly rig the 23 single for guys that never more than 10 miles for land or stay inside the bay and fish for stripers. I have never laid eyes on a 26 with a single . Even a 250 the thing would be a pig in the water. They rig nearly everyone that leaves with twin 200 yammy's mostly 4 strokes these days. If you plan on being out in the deep blue 20+ miles off shore you would be better served with twins. Last thing you want is a big wave crashing over the stern because you couln't power your way over the one in front of you. I fish a 26 and could not imagine it with just one motor.

You will also see Proline running one motor, for me i want 2, but for some guys 1 is all thats needed, heck saturday we were out 100 nautical miles and saw a parker running 1 single yamaha 4 stroke.

If the twins are sized so that a single engine can still get the hull up on step when fully loaded, then they have an advantage should one engine go south. You also have to look at having a truly redundant installation which is to say sepperate fuel systems for each engine and seperate isolated battery/electrical systems for each engine. You'd also be well advised to fuel up each tank in different locations, as fuel contamination is the #1 fouler of boat engines.

Many twin installations don't have engines that can plane the hull should one quit, so you just have something that makes alot of noise and sucks alot of fuel, and doesn't get you in any faster than if you ran a kicker as your emergency means of return. I'd say the power of a single of the twin needs to be about 70% that of the single mill, provided the single isn't already too small so that one of your twins has enough power to bring you in at planing speeds.

On the boat I'm building I gave serious consideration to twins, and decided on a large main and kicker for backup. Here is my reasoning for going for the single. Lower initial cost, lower opperating costs (both fuel consumption and maintenance/repairs), reliability of modern o/b's, smaller splashwell so more fishing space, and simpler installation. I also figured if there were any cases where I fealt that I'd only be comfortable on the water if I had twin power, then my 23' boat was too small to go that far out or under whatever conditions I'd need to hall but to port even should 1 engine go out.

With the cost of doing a twin installation right, I'd rather have a slightly bigger boat with a good single and a kicker. I can only see twins in instances where time is more important than money, ie commercial ventures, or rescue work, where you really shouldn't be out in the conditions anyway, and need every break you can get.

FYI my 26 will do 23 knts with 1 of 2 200 yammys not working!

Not saying you Alaska guys are wrong, but Rhode Island where this guy is from is a far cry from where you guys operate. Its a lot more populated Tow boat US is a phone call away and most Helo's are withing 30 minutes. Correct me if I'm wrong but your circumstances may differ slightly.

Rob , what is this guy looking to do with the boat ? Is he gonna fish for stripers or is he gonna run to Georges Bank ,Cape cod and Nantucket?

That's the way it should work! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm also a fan of making sure that one engine will get the boat on plane by itself. Otherwise it's just a big kicker.

The 26 regulator will handle 500 hp and 176 gallons of fuel. For me thats an easy choice to make. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

All I'm saying is, if you're going for a twin installation so that you can bring yourself back under power should one fail, make sure the twin installation is done right with regards to redundancy and eliminating as many single points of failure as possible. Just because you have two mills on the transom doesn't mean you necessarily have more reliable power.

Yes, Alaskans have to be more reliant, and that is a good thing. Going out on the salt thinking someone will bail you out should you pull a bonehead move is a bad thing.

P,

You forgot to add that one in the water is less likely to hit things than are two. Less to snag on or hit drift with when you come down the river. Not much in the way of sand bars 'til Holy Cross though. Are you still considering a trip on the big river BTW?

I like your comments on fuel by the way. I grew up driving Farmall tractors on the farm. One thing about that that sticks in my head was the fact that the fule tank covers were stamped with the words, "Buy Clean Fuel - Keep it Clean.) I never saw it as much of a problem there - I guess we were pretty careful. Those words would be very appropriate if they were emblazoned as a reminder around boat fuel systems though. I'd say at least 95% of my problems, when I have them, are fuel related this in spite of a reasonable effort to avoid fuel issues. (Did you know mosquitoes will go into the darkness of the tank fill hole if you leave it open for a few minutes? Of course they die and can plug up fuel lines very quickly! )

Mark,

I'd still like to do the Yukon trip, but it'll be a few years out, thanks for reminding me as I'd put it out of my mind, my whole project has been delayed as of late. I'd just like to get the boat finished, and burn a bunch of fuel in Prince William Sound for the first few years.

If money were no object, then I'd say a proper twin installation would be the way to go, especially on larger boats, say 28' and above, but I'd want diesel inboards. I deal a fair bit with maintenance and reliablility issues, and know the benefits and pitfuls of redundant installations. Done right there are some benefits, done wrong there are simply increased costs and headaches. I did my own cost/benefit analysis and for my application, a good single came out on top of twins.

Simply put, twins are not twice as reliable as a single, and the benefits over a single with a kicker that has little time on it are even less.

trouble with that line of thought is in order to get both motors isloated on their own fuel sytems you would have to build a custom boat . I don't know of any production boats powered with twins that have seperate fuel tanks for each motor. And that Includes the Yards of Rybovich , Merit and the like and they are custom builders. Bertram , Viking , Cabo , Regularor , Intrepid , Seavea all have 1 tank and fuel supply split to feed each motor individually. Others may be out there that do this but I have never heard of or layed eyes on any and I've run a lot of diffent boats from 17' to 125'.

BW that FYI was for Rob it was not directed at you . Sorry for any confusion.

No problem, it's been a good discussion. I simply wanted to point out that twins don't necessarily mean more reliability, and can be less reliable. I can't imagine having twin tanks on a custom boat would be that much of a problem, there are many tank solutions out there. I could live with a single tank if the fuel pickup, filter/seperator et all to each engine was independant.

The only time having twins is an advantage is if either one by its self can get you up on step. Otherwise all you have is one very expensive kicker.
Wildone, Sea Sports have a tank on each side. If you wanted to equip a Sea Sport with twin outboards you could plumb each one into a different tank.

Snowwolfe,

I'd agree, except in circumstances were you need more than 300hp from a single outboard.

I'm no expert, just going from memory, but only Yamaha offers a 300hp HPDI and Mercury offers a 300hp Verado.

The Yamies have some issues at the level, and the Mercs still need some time to be proven.

Could be wrong!

When I sell my fishing boat, I'm looking to have a 36-40ish foot aluminum drop bow built. I like diesels, but would prefer outboards for ease of maintenance, and the ability to raise them up for shallow water use.



If you need more than 300 ponies, and want outboards, you gotta go twins.

Or trips. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Okay, I'm not a saltwater guy so I might be out to lunch here, but why would you want two different fuel tanks? Aren't most of the fuel issues going to come from where you buy the gas from? And wouldn't you fill both tanks from the same place? I'm just thinking that if there is a problem with the gas in one tank it's likely going to be in the other as well.

SS

Sam, Although rare, you could get a kinked/plugged vent line.

My main point is that for duals to be more reliable, they need to as close to totally independant from eachother as possible. And as I noted, ideally fueled up at different locations, but that isn't really practical.

Thanks Lott. That makes sense, and I agree with the independent thing.


SS

BW,
Agreed. They only make them so big. The only time I wished I had outboards is when they have the King Salmon tournament in Homer during March. Cause then I wouldnt have to rewinterize inboard, lol.

I think were beating this horse to death. 458 not saying your wrong or I'm wright, just chattering . Ive been running twin yammy's on every boat I've owned since 1987 . I have yet to run into a real badfuel problem. If a situation arose were a guy was selling bad fuel on the water it would not take but a week and that guy would be out of business here in NY. Word gets around pretty dam quick here. I have watched guys that were steady regular customers leave a guy for a month or 2 just because they didn't like the smell of his shark chum to go buy it elsewhere at a major inconvenience to them.The only issue I have seen arise from fuel and outboards in my neck of the woods actually was when they started with the ethenol. when the fuel sloshed around in the tank and a small milky alge would form and it would clog the secondary fuel filter . Not the racor but the tiny one on the motor itself.Since then I have been using the 10 micron Racor's and changing the secondary filter anually.What was happening was the alge would pass throught the racors because the mesh was not fine enough and get caught in the secondary and would cause loss in power( you knew when it was comming)and eventually when it got full total loss. This never happend to me .Simple fix though. Bad fuel issues usually arise from marinas or the like that don't sell a lot of fuel to begin with and it gets funked. If where you buy your fuel is turning over the tanks once every week or 2 Id be surprised if you got bad fuel.

Snowwolfe , there are many companies that build boats with saddle tanks and yes you could rig them individually if you want . One reason why they don't rig saddle tanks individually is if one motor pukes and you have to run home on 1 if you come close to emptying one tank you will have a stability issue depending on how much fuel is left in the off side. On one boat I had , I rigged 3 batteries . One for each motor and one house battery to run the electronics and live wells. Batteries were in the stern . The side that had the extra battery on it listed ( not much ,but very noticeable) and that was just a battery. I added a 4th battery and the list was gone. Now picture what 866 lbs of gas (100 gal) will do to stability. Now if both tanks were in line center of the boat that would be a non issue then.

I can say this , the last 3 sets of yammy's that I have baught (3 different boats)got all regularly scheduled maintinence by the book.I have never had to do any repairs or have never broke downs at sea. I run my boat from March 15th to the end of Nov every year and average about 1200 hours run time per year.Do your maintenance.

"I don't know of any production boats powered with twins that have seperate fuel tanks for each motor. And that Includes the Yards of Rybovich , Merit and the like and they are custom builders. Bertram , Viking , Cabo , Regularor , Intrepid , Seavea all have 1 tank and fuel supply split to feed each motor individually. Others may be out there that do this but I have never heard of or layed eyes on any and I've run a lot of diffent boats from 17' to 125'. "

Wildone, The only reason I stated SeaSport made a boat with dual tanks was because you stated you didnt know of any company that did. Cheers

While changing spark plugs on my Honda 130 yesterday, as the boat was sitting on the trailer, I began to think outboards must be the easiest engines in the world to maintain. I should have been a freakin' outboard mechanic! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I appreciate a good diesel inboard set-up, the slow turning versions. The high revving diesels, like V/P 43's running through a duoprop outdrive are not my idea of a good day bending a wrench. Having said that, I'm sure thats exactly the combo you run! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

What's winterizing? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Wildone,

Yep, we're all just 'chatting' about boats, same as in the other thread in the Alaska section.

I don't know about the others up here, but I'm always fighting water in the fuel. Could be my tanks, I run portable tanks, usually a 26 gallon and a 20 gallon. But occasionally I've borrowed a few more of the big ones when going on a long trip.

Anyhow, maybe the water gets by the filler caps, or the vent on the cap. Could be condensation too. I drain my Racor just about daily. If not, the engine will let me know about it!

The fuel in town here isn't too bad, but it doesn't matter as there's only one fuel company. You'll find no boycotts around here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have bought bad fuel in a small town while on a long run. There's wasn't any choice, it was the only fuel around for nearly 100 miles any direction. That tank got me darn near my destination before rough chop and the low fuel level allowed the water and gunk to reach the filters and clog the system. Fortunately the engine didn't die (chevy 350 I/O) completely, and I was able to get into a small cove to fix the problem. Changed filters a couple times, and bought new fuel. Not much else to do at the time. I bought a couple jerry cans for the trip back, and bypassed that town. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Actually I have the 8.1 (496 ci) 375 HP Gas inboard with the duoprop. I love the combo. Great pickup and reasonable economy with my 24 foot SeaSport.

Snowwolf thanks for the heads up on Sea Sport.I was unaware thier tanks were saddled. If you look back at the quote though I stated that I didn't know of any that were rigging them independantly.I wasn't flaming or trying to discredit you. I hope you didn't take it that way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Naw, I didnt. Cheers and good fishing!

BeDub...I see were your comming from up there . Fuel stops are far and few between. Not a whole lot of traffic probably either to keep things turning over at a good rate.
The EPA is very hard on these guys in my neck of the woods. The guy where I buy my fuel and bait from told me this year it is a never ending battle with upgrades. He told me 6 years ago they made him upgrade his tanks at a cost of over 400k to him and they told him by 2010 he will have to be in compliance with the new regs which will be close to the same #. He says he just barely gets done paying one loan and he has to take out another.He doesn't know how much longer he will be able to stay in business. He only pumps from March to Dec and the begining and end are very slow.There is one guy over here who is notorious for water in his fuel . He is in the middle of the Bay here and barges his fuel over from the mainland. Most of the weekend worriors buy from him because they don't know any better but most of the guys that run the deep blue buy from where I get mine. Take a look here http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQK/is_5_9/ai_n6200100

I have been using Star tron in my tanks to avoid that alge thing I mentioned above but it also helps disperse water in the tank .Read down the article a little bit there is a paragraph that describes how it spreads it out.

Redundant fuel tankage was far more common in older days than today...that does not make it less valid today however.

FWIW, here's a boat that would not plane on one engine.


On the other hand, it would cruise 50-55 below 4000 rpm. Such is life with surface drives and coarse pitched props. As to the question at hand, I'm thinking it a common sense thing, this one or two choice. If you don't mind bobbing around in the deep blue for a spell without a sense of direction, by all means have a single engine boat. I've had singles fail, and I've had one of a pair fail...never had both die on me.

When the one you have quits about ten miles offshore is probably the worst time to decide you shoulda had two.....

I'm really late to this thread, but I thought I'd add my $.02. I have a 26 Regulator running twin 225's. The dry hull weighs 5,000 lbs. That's just too much weight for a running a single 300 everyday. If you're friend decided to go with a single engine (assuming Regulator would even rig one that way), he'd have to use such a low-pitch prop that his top end would really suck. Re-sale value would really suck too. Personally, I can't think of a single reason to rig such a boat with a single engine.

We have a long run here to get to blue water (50 mi +) and it would worry me no end to be that far out with one engine. I would worry so much, that I don't think I'd enjoy the day of fishing. In ten years of running twins offshore, I've come home only once on one engine (bad temp sensor).

As a side note, we have very few Regulators running on the Texas coast. I don't think I've ever run across another one offshore. They are tremendous boats though and handle our high-frequency chop very well. I hope your friend gets the Regulator and really enjoys it. I love mine, it rides like a 35' boat.