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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,346 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,346 Likes: 1 |
when possible I just carry two guns, one in my pocket the other behind my hip.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
And in every one of those situations the presence of a gun would have made a difference, perhaps even altered the outcome of events, regardless of how many reloads were being carried. That is an assumption on your part - unless you can accurately predict futures that never happened. Moreover, it is beside the point. It could just as easily have been 2-3 people with my wife and I, maybe somewhere else with different circumstances, maybe after dark, maybe whatever. We're still not sure how many were involved in killing my brother, but at least two and probably three.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,418 Likes: 23
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,418 Likes: 23 |
I always carry at least two spare mags when carrying my 1911 45acp. If I'm carrying my Glock 31 or 32 in 357 Sig caliber, I'm very comfortable with one spare 15 round mag. Hope I never need a spare mag, but the one time you need it the most, it doesn't hurt to be prepared. I've yet to hear anyone involved in a shooting say they wished they had less ammo on their person at the time 
Last edited by chlinstructor; 03/26/13.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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A firearm does not have to be expensive to be accurate and reliable
Agree----if that statement is in response to my previous comment, then I've caused you to jump to the wrong conclusion. My point was that expense should not be a criteria AT ALL in facing the comparatively extreme situations that CH has gone thru. If someone cut me off in traffic and then accosted me, and my wife has someone following her in a car, then I want the MOST tack-drivingly-accurate, smooth and reliable handgun available; if that's a Brazilian or Phillipino 1911 then by all means have at it. However,to say that a gun is "good enough" is hard for me to understand. You have to define what "good enough" means---I think that under the circumstances that CH described, my definition would be rather stringent and would exclude price as an absolute criteria. Expense have never been "an absolute criteria" or even the primary criteria in my choice of carry weapons. Concealability, reliability, accuracy and functionality trump that by a mile. That said, at some point we all decide that "" a gun is "good enough"" as that is that point at which we purchase or decide to stop modifying and actually carry a particular gun. For some that is only after they've spent many hundreds or even thousands of dollars. Others, like myself, feel quite adequately armed with firearms costing only a few hundred. My three primary carry weapons (Browning BDM in 9mm, Walther PPK in .380 and Kimber Compact in .45) are all reliable and I shoot them well. They are easily "good enough".
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654 |
The best $1000 you can spend on a carry pistol is a $400 Glock or M&P, $100 on a good holster, and 1500 rounds of ammo.
IMHO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,920 Likes: 52
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,920 Likes: 52 |
The best $1000 you can spend on a carry pistol is a $400 Glock or M&P, $100 on a good holster, and 1500 rounds of ammo.
IMHO Have to agree.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
"How have you determined, how much is enough? What criteria did you use in the decision?"
...by serious study of gun fights...
The NRA states that there are 2,000,000 cases a year where a firearm is used for self-defense and almost all the time no shots are fired. If you read the newspapers, gun magazines and search online you'll find that most are over very quickly...the "3 seconds-3 yards-3 shots" as stated above. At least at this point there are not the 4 hour long running gun battles that are going on just south of the border...yet. And again these are not self-defense shootings...they are waring armies.
Keeping it just to a typical self-defense shooting the #1 rule I have seen is no matter how many rounds your gun holds even if you carry a spare magazine/ammo there will be no shots fired after the reload....you will finish the fight only with what is in the gun to start.
The last statistics I saw on LE gun fights is that 7% end up in a reload. I don't know how accurate that is but I do know in the 11 years I was with Dallas PD other than one shooting that was a result of a murder warrant service I can't remember but a couple of gunfights going much over three rounds or involving any reloads. And that was 60-85 gunfights a year for 11 years.
Civilian reloads where shots were fired after the reload...I can't find any... And I have asked a number of internationally know trainers, put the question out on many Boards and LEOs... One would think with the tens of thousands self-defense shootings there would be dozens if not hundreds of theses...so why don't we hear of any...because there are none...and why...cuz most criminals are cowards and don't want to die.
Look over on YouTube or LiveLeak at the videos of what happens when the gunfire starts...people start RUNNING... The two robbers in that casino who were shot at by the older patron was a perfect example...they fell all over each other trying to get out the door while the guy just kept walking calmly behind them shooting...and they had a bigger gun... And the video in Florida of the home invasion where the suspects were surprised by the homeowner with a rifle who unloaded on them and then their car...it looked like an episode of Keystone Cops trying to get into their car...
By the time your gun is empty or the shooting stops one of the following is going to occur:
1) You or he are dead
2) You or he are wounded and unable to continue the fight
3) You, he or both of you have withdrawn
4) One of you has surrendered
If anyone can come up with a documented case where in a civilian gunfight a reload resulted in continued shooting by the victim or a victim died because they ran out of ammo and didn't have a reload please let me know.
As to my position...I have an extra magazine in a carry bag I always have with me outside the house and have rarely carried a reload on my person since leaving LE. What I carry will get me out of 99.9% of what I am likely to get into self-defense wise... And in those rare times where I think a reload on my person may be prudent...I carry not only the extra mag but a second gun matched to the first.
Bob I give this post my official imprimatur.  Hawk...I had to look that one up....  Imprimatur From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: An imprimatur (from Latin, "let it be printed") is, in the proper sense, a declaration authorizing publication of a book. The term is also applied loosely to any mark of approval or endorsement. ...and coming from someone so high up on the Food Chain..thank you... Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 556
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
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And in every one of those situations the presence of a gun would have made a difference, perhaps even altered the outcome of events, regardless of how many reloads were being carried. That is an assumption on your part - unless you can accurately predict futures that never happened. So are you saying that at the presence of a handgun -- any gun -- would have made no difference at all? If that's the case, why bother to carry a gun in the first place? Or, for that matter, why disparage those who do not feel the need to carry additional ammunition if the presence of a firearm will make no difference?
Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid. --John Wayne
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,762
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,762 |
I think coyote is referring to your lack of reloads....as for Me I don't care if you carry the gun empty with no reloads, if your comfortable with it far be it from me to try and sway your "intuitive senses"......Good luck..................Hb
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
And in every one of those situations the presence of a gun would have made a difference, perhaps even altered the outcome of events, regardless of how many reloads were being carried. That is an assumption on your part - unless you can accurately predict futures that never happened. So are you saying that at the presence of a handgun -- any gun -- would have made no difference at all? If that's the case, why bother to carry a gun in the first place? � No, what I�m saying is that the influence of a gun that didn�t exist cannot be accurately known and furthermore, and more to my point, that the influence of reloads that may or may not have existed and may or may not have been needed also cannot be known. Would the presence of a gun have changed things in either case? Perhaps, but only if it was brought into play. Even then the outcome is uncertain � perhaps it gets dropped or taken away, perhaps a failure to fire due to a gun or mag or operator problem, perhaps a failure to fire due to a bad factory cartridge or worse, a squib factory load that leaves a bullet in the barrel, or perhaps the other guy grabs a kid for cover and the situation spirals out of control from there. Or perhaps the other guy has a concealed gun no one else was aware of and shooting starts. Since you seem content with predicting the outcomes of events that didn�t happen, let�s consider the latter two cases � the other guy grabs a kid and his hideout gun and starts shooting. Assuming I survive the first few seconds, might I want some reloads? Damn right. Even if they are never needed their very presence might well � and undoubtedly would � influence how I choose to use the limited rounds in my gun and thus very significantly affect the outcome of the situation. Given a choice between a) my box-stock Kimber Compact .45 with 7 in the gun and 7 more in a spare mag, or b) a $3,000 tricked out combat weapon with only the 7 rounds in the mag well, my Kimber and the spare mag would be my hands down first choice. Why carry a gun in the first place? Because life can be unpredictable at best and experience has taught me that even though I try to avoid environments where bad situations are more likely to occur, life�s reality is that schit happens.
Or, for that matter, why disparage those who do not feel the need to carry additional ammunition if the presence of a firearm will make no difference?
Well, now you are just making stuff up. Go back and re-read my posts - nowhere have I disparaged those who feel additional ammo is unnecessary. What I have done is wish you good luck with avoiding �situations where there is even a remote chance� of a shoot-out. Your �situational awareness� may keep you out of trouble or it may simply put you ahead of the curve in a bad situation that develops beyond your control. Or it might fail you all together. Life style choices and situational awareness can reduce the odds of conflict but neither provides any guarantee.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 03/27/13. Reason: spelnig
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,672 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,672 Likes: 1 |
The best $1000 you can spend on a carry pistol is a $400 Glock or M&P, $100 on a good holster, and 1500 rounds of ammo.
IMHO Have to agree. Tupperware guns really ain�t my thing, but it�s damn hard to argue that one.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,920 Likes: 52
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,920 Likes: 52 |
Like I said, I don't carry extra (have twelve on tap), but I just ordered one of these, just for the hell of it, for my M&P 9C, to see how it works. Some of you folks might want to order one too. One reason I don't just "stick one in my pocket" is that my cell phone is in my left front pocket and my wallet is in my right front pocket, and I didn't want a magazine in there right next to them for fear of them damaging each other. This might be the solution. ![[Linked Image]](http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5400/h9u3wkq/products/261/images/2580/_MG_9957__74790.1360443358.350.350.jpg)
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487 |
The best $1000 you can spend on a carry pistol is a $400 Glock or M&P, $100 on a good holster, and 1500 rounds of ammo.
IMHO Have to agree. Tupperware guns really ain�t my thing, but it�s damn hard to argue that one. +1
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,699
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,699 |
This works for me. Bob ![[Linked Image]](http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii27/RobertOIF2/DSC_1923.jpg)
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,808 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,808 Likes: 3 |
RGK, Where could a guy pick up one of those neat little ammo holders you pictured..that would be perfect for my use..
Molon Labe
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720 |
This works for me. Bob Around here,that watch makes you a target....
Come on America,
Athletes and actors are not heroes, only soldiers, airmen,marines and sailors get that respect�and let's add firemen and LEO's
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,300
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,300 |
RGK, Where could a guy pick up one of those neat little ammo holders you pictured..that would be perfect for my use.. Wyo - go to midwayusa and do a search for speed strips. They have them in stock for multiple calibers.
It's good to lead - it's better to lead by example.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,808 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,808 Likes: 3 |
Thanks guys..these are perfect...
Molon Labe
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,346 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,346 Likes: 1 |
The best $1000 you can spend on a carry pistol is a $400 Glock or M&P, $100 on a good holster, and 1500 rounds of ammo.
IMHO perfect yet beyond the comprehension of many.
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