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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I was asking where the escapee was hit. A fellow in our of our camp did two behind the shoulders (30-06) last season and never found either one. 'Twould seem to me that one presumes their guide is an able tracker when they are put onto a bear near or in heavy cover. By the same token, it would seem presumptive that one might conclude that an unguided hunter would be capable of same were he to take a shot under similar circumstances. FWIW, if other states have statutes similar to Alaska's, you have legally bagged one bear when you draw blood. Finding it is up to you, or your proxy tracker.
Last edited by Klikitarik; 03/27/13.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,241 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,241 Likes: 2 |
A broadside shot might mot kill em right away but they are dead if a lung or heart. If they run 30 seconds it can be darn hard to find them. They seem hard to track. Then they lay down on the ground with 100 black logs laying all over the woods and die.( my experience) Vey hard to track in thick brush and green.
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,973
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,973 |
We hunted over bait in Quebec and our guide was looking for a throat or head shot.
Bob
Your "guide" is an idiot. I agree with that. Any guide who has any experience with bears - or any other big game animal, for that matter - would definitely avoid aiming for the head and/or neck when placing the first bullet, regardless of the terrain and surrounding vegetation. That's just stupid.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,270 Likes: 42
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,270 Likes: 42 |
The most experienced black bear guide I know is Jim Shockey. He is against the so-called "break 'em down" shoulder shot, because too many people become fixated on the shoulder and don't notice slight differences in shot angle. Instead he recommends the classic tight-behind-the-shoulder lung shot.
That said, Jim's guiding spot-and-stalk, where shots are longer than in typical baiting. The lung shot provides more room for error.But the most experienced brown bear/grizzly guide I know, Phil Shoemaker, is also against the shoulder shot for the same reasons.
Personally I've never seen bears go very far when solidly double-lunged. If you shoot 'em too far back, though....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,973
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,973 |
I totally agree. When I'm following a bear through dense foliage after a client has shot it (bear) through the lungs, I know that when I come upon it, it's going to be dead. Nothing like a good ol' lung shot.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,379 Likes: 38
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,379 Likes: 38 |
There is shoulder and then there is shoulder joint. I've not seen a bear argue with 180 gr at 3K to the point of the shoulder complain.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 483
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jun 2012
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Tight behind the shoulder. I also use a big bore. Hits them hard and makes them bleed more IF tracking is necessary.
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,021 Likes: 7 |
I shoot tight behind the shoulder. It works fine. At camp we've lost bears that guys have shoulder shot. Now it's normally happened with .30-30's and .35 Remingtons and the like but guys shoot the bear in the shoulders and the blood trail is great.......for a while. Then it fizzles out to nothing. We also lost shoulder shot bear with the .308 and .30-06 but those guys were running cup and core 150's. Same deal, great blood trail then it fizzles out. I use the .30-06 with 180's myself.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,252
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,252 |
I think the sight picture gives more people issues than the location of the vitals. A black blob in the shadows makes finding that "tight behind the shoulder" spot more difficult and can lead to poor bullet placement.
I watched a friend shot a black bear broadside at about 300 yds in a clear cut. Shot looked good, bear dropped and rolled end over end like an old tire down the hill. Got hung up on some brush for about a minute before he gave a kick and continued to roll down the hill. I remember watching him through binoculars rolling over his face appearing as dead as a hammer. As soon as he hit the creek he regained his feet and down the drainage he went. Followed him off the mountain and finally hit a paved road that he crossed and continued on. Not exactly sure what happened but I think he was hit high, shocked the system until he had enough time on the roll to recover.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,379 Likes: 38
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,379 Likes: 38 |
The one my son shot last fall was standing when he hit it. The bear was turned ever so slightly as to not be truly "center punched". Bullet went in the right pectoral and out the back, left chest. Took the top of the heart and left lung. Short track into the alders found him.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,975 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,975 Likes: 11 |
How far behind the shoulders? He did not recover either bear, so I could not make measurements.
1Minute
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,354
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,354 |
I have an acquaintance that takes a good buck and bull most years.
The guys shoots and fails to recover bear as often as he kills them.
Last edited by Rogue; 03/31/13.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,063 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,063 Likes: 5 |
I have known a few guys that lost black bears when hunting in PA. When the adrenaline is up in a black bear they seem to travel a long ways after being wounded.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,971
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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bears have soft feet that don't leave much of a track and a layer of fat that tends to stop bleeding. combined with rocky dry ground in the west makes them hard to track. i allways try for a double long shot close behind the shoulder. Ed
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I'm finding this discussion particularly interesting. Headed on my first bear hunt this fall. I always thought tight behind the shoulder and slightly lower in the chest than a deer would produce quick kills....
Life is hard,its even harder when you are stupid.
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,021 Likes: 7 |
I'm finding this discussion particularly interesting. Headed on my first bear hunt this fall. I always thought tight behind the shoulder and slightly lower in the chest than a deer would produce quick kills.... Ideally you wait until the bear is quartering away and you slide that bullet in right behind the shoulder headed straight for the off shoulder. Hunting doesn't always produce ideal situations though.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,379 Likes: 38
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,379 Likes: 38 |
Might be time to post this .gif again.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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