Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Holy Crap Leica!

You obviously don't hunt much, outside of a tree stand.

The prices the OP was quoted for objective repairs are outrageous. Period.
The other thing is when we have companies like Swarovski and Zeiss offering stellar repairs on items with 'forever' transferable warranty (even 'no fault') we get spoiled.

Any company that offers less will be b+tched about.
S & Z have rightly earned a great rep by taking care of their own.

I had to send my Geovids in for service once. The focus ring locked some reason. The whole thing went smooth with no charge. It took about 8 weeks. I hadn't registered them so they had me send in a copy of my purchase reciept in with the bino's.

I have no idea if $800 is too much to replace the lenses or not. I suspect most here don't know either.

I'd buy another pair from them based on my experience dealing with thier C/S.

Terry

Stolen and resold, perhaps?

Gray market means the product doesn't have the same warranty coverage as a product purchased through the sanctioned retailers for that particular manufacturer's products, not that it was "stolen" (although it could have been stolen somewhere along the distribution chain). Oftentimes (perhaps always), the product was intended for another market (e.g., Europe/South America/Asia) and somehow made it to the U.S. outside the normal distribution chain for that particular manufacturer. One example would be a wholesaler/retailer in Asia sold it to a retailer in the U.S. at a cost lower than what the retailer in the U.S. could obtain it through the manufacturer's normal distribution channels.

As someone else noted, you may be able to get warranty service by shipping the product to the warranty service center for the country/region the product was designated to be sold in by the manufacturer.

?????

Got to wondering the same thing, so I have emails in to S & Z asking them if there are Gray Markets for their products and what their warranty would do to reflect it. If nobody answers this, I'll post back what they say.

I know an attempt was already made at answering this question but allow me to share my experience with gray market. I worked for HP developing toner cartridges. HP sells toner cartridge into various markets throughout the world. In some markets HP decided to sell the cartridge for less in order to complete more effectively against the aftermarket suppliers. Those cartridges where then bought up by a third party and sold into the western European market where they commanded a higher price. HP never made an effort to punish the end customers for accepting gray market cartridges.

Another way of looking at it from the US consumer point of view: Leica decided they could command a higher selling price for their binoculars in the US (rich, dumb, Americans). Someone obtained a binocular outside of the Leica/American sales channel and offered them to sale to me.

I am the original poster, the guy with the gray market binoculars. They showed up at my door this afternoon. Leica paid for the return shipment, they did not ask me to pay to have them returned. The lens are still scratched.

+1

From a seller (***):

The terms "grey market", "direct import", and "Imported", refer to the same thing in this article. *** sells most products with a warranty from the manufacturer or from the manufacturer's licensed importer. We also sell some products we've obtained from sources other than the manufacturer or its licensed importer. These are "grey market" products. "Grey market" is not illegal, not factory seconds, not demo merchandise, not cheaper or inferior products. In fact in almost every instance a "grey market" product is absolutely identical to its US-warranted counterpart. "Grey market" and US-warranted products are manufactured in the same factories from the same components, and sub-assemblies, to the same specs and tolerances, by the same workers. In terms of the item itself (excepting PAL video) there is no difference at all. A "grey market" Nikon 50mm f/1.4 D-AF lens (for example) is exactly the same in every possible way as the US-warranted version.

What are the differences as far as a customer is concerned?
In most cases the difference between a "USA" and a "Grey Market," or imported product, is the cost of the item and the terms of the item�s warranty coverage. The products themselves are otherwise identical. As a rule, "Grey Market" items cost less than their USA counterparts. "Grey market" products never qualify for manufacturer's rebate programs.

I had both telephone and email conversations with Swarovski and Zeiss today. They both check the serial numbers of units returned for service/repair/warranty. They know from the serial number how the binocular moved through their authorized dealers...or if not. Both take a dim view of Gray Market and will not do warranty on said item. I've got a further question I asked Swarovski that I have not heard back on yet.

They both said they have had less problems as they have tightened tracking procedures from the factories to the consumer. They can't control everything and the Swaro rep said there would probably always be some gray market.

Something interesting that showed up is that both the S and Z reps I communicated with is that their first reaction to the term Gray Market was that they were thinking counterfeit knock offs.

I see counterfeit copies particularly of Leica and Leupold on ebay every so often. They are cheap as hell and ebay must scan for this sort of thing somehow and they never last long before the sales links are removed. From the photos it is easy to see how somebody could think they were looking at the real deal. There is always something not right about logo placement, trim design or something that will give them away. But I've seen several advertised as NIB Leica binoculars for a steal of a deal at $600-700.

Their advice was unless you are buying from an authorized dealer, to always get the serial number and call them and see if it is legit.

Thanks for the info Steve. I wonder why I never hear of warranty issues with gray market S & Z's but hear of it often with Lieca?

Seems to me from all these comments on this thread and personal experiences is that the warranty service offered by Leica on a new, authorized product from them is steller and first rate.
However
Purchasing a used, second hand or gray market Leica product is a very large and terrible mistake. The warranty service rendered on these items are terrible and flat out SUCKS. Its not worth the bother in purchasing them.

If buying used or second hand,, swaro and zeiss along with others put Leica to shame.

Good info, Steve - thanks for sharing.

What you wrote is also a consideration for people considering buying new Leica products because resale value will be affected by those factors.

Further reply from Swarovski said they defined Gray market to means anything that was not sold originally through an authorized dealer, stolen products, or counterfeit product. They said if you are buying from an authorized dealer then you have no worries. They also said if you are buying from an individual or ebay, get the serial number from them and you can always have Swarovski run it.

So I guess if your Swaro gets boosted, be sure you have your serial number and report it to Swaro, maybe they might find it if it ever shows up at their door for repair. You might find it for sale on ebay too I suppose.

I wonder why the counterfeit copies of Leica seem to be easier to find than S & Z. Leica does seem to have more gray market issues too. I have to assume they are not as stringent about tracking the path of the product from the factory to the customer.

My own take now is if you can't get a serial number from a person selling it used is to beware. If it is from a dealer who states it is gray market, stay away if you want warranty.

I suppose we can fry Leica for the quoted repair, but I doubt anybody knows what it really costs. You can't just pop out the old, pop in the new. The binocular has to get a lot more thorough treatment than that to be sure it is performing to spec after the lenses get changed. BTW, I am not wanting to seem to defend Leica here, but I can see another side to the story.

EDIT

I see it was the ocular lenses scratched. I misread that at first and thought objective. Keep in mind the oculars are the expensive end of the binocular. The whole eye piece assembly will have to be disassembled, and reassembled with the new lenses