Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 30 Herrett or 357 Max for Deer/Hog hunting

I did a stint with the Encore in pistol form. It had a 15" barrel and was chambered in 7mm/08. After a while, I got tired of the size of the gun, the recoil, and the muzzle blast. A few years later, I have acquired a Contender and have a 22 Hornet barrel on the way. I will play around with it and use it for varmints, but have already begun thinking about my centerfire options. I am thinking about a potential rig that would be used for deer and pigs. Shots would be kept within 100 yards. I think I have narrowed down my options to the 30 Herrett and the 357 Maximum.

Does anybody have any experience with these rounds? If I go the 357 route, I would buy a TC 357 Mag barrel and sent it to Belm to have them rechamber to the Max. I know of a gentleman who often has 30 Herrett barrels at a local gun show.

My interests are in the abilities of each of these rounds as well as the ease of loading and shootability of these chambereings.

Is forming 30 Herrett much of a challenge or PITA?

What is the difference in recoil like between the two? I am thinking I would use about a 130 grain bullet in the Herrett or a 180 in the 357.

Is finding brass for the Max muxh of a problem? I have heard that Remington is the only company who currently produces the stuff and they do it in runs.

I think I would like a 10 or 12" barrel.

If there is anything else you might think of, or have experienced with these rounds, I would be happy to hear your thoughts.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

Take care,
Jeff

Forming 30 Herrett is easy, just run a 30-30 shell into the 30 herrett die. The PITA is trimming it to length. Need a fast way to do that.

I had a .357 Herrett contender barrel, a long time ago. Dad had a .30 Herrett, and I made cases for both.

File trim dies make either caliber easy to form & trim; just form and use a fine pitch Sawzall blade to rip off the excess neck, then file to length.

That said, IMO there was some questionable hype that went into both the .30 and .357 - the claim by the originators was that they gave much better accuracy, respectively, than the .30-30, and .35 Remington, because the original rounds had too much case capacity for pistol barrels. My .357 Herrett contender barrel had a very rough chamber, and I could not even begin to approach Milek and Herrett's loads, without sticky extraction.

A number of years after the wildcats were introduced, Milek wrote an article praising the accuracy of the .30-30 Contender
And many folks have 7-30 Waters Contender barrels with good results. I suspect the .35 Rem would do well, too, in a good barrel with good loads - but think I'd do at least a 14" barrel in any of them, however.

If you're determined to stay with a 10-12" barrel, then I think I'd pick the .357 Maximum first, then maybe the .30 Herrett. But for shots under 100 yards I think I'd go with the .44 mag or .45 Colt, if the same 10" barrels.

.357 Max,...hands down.

As easy to load as a .38 spl (carbide sizing die) and hits like a .35 Remington.

Use 180 grain bullets and AA1680 to get the most from it.

Sorry I can't give you the technical stuff that you're looking for but I'll leave you with this. I used to own a Contender with a 16.5" SSK barrel in .358 JDJ and their "arrestor" muzzle brake. The brake did a really great job, by the way. Zero muzzle rise, although it did come straight back and you could feel the torque. Neither was too much to handle, but the hassle of every time I was ready to shoot... "darn I need to do some reloading!" got old.

I did some reading a few years back in one of Dean Grennell's books and he seemed to be pretty excited about the .357 Remington Maximum, which he abbreviated as the .357 R-Max, IIRC, and he devoted a chapter or so of that book covering it. It made me start thinking about it too.

Were I to do this myself, I'd definitely go with with the Maximum as it's pretty hassle-free, although I've never owned one () and it's not in too an exotic cartridge should you decide to sell it. I think I'd probably go with a 14" barrel for a little less muzzle blast, but that's theoretical too, as I haven't owned one shorter than that myself. Funny thing is the muzzle blast on my non-ported 16" .223 bothered me more than the 16.5" braked .358 JDJ and the 14" .44 Mag with T/C Muzzletamer brake.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

Tex you make a good point about the pistol cartridges. I'm a fan of the 41 mag. I wonder what kind of velocities I could get with a 200 grain slug out of a 10 or 12" barrel?

I'd be delighted to ship you my .375 Win barrel, complete with scope, dies and all the ammo and components you'd need for a lifetime of hog hammering.

PM me for price and list of included stuff.

I just don�t see the need for the Herrett cartridges. Yeah they�re more �efficient� than the parent cartridges, but who cares? A .30-30 will do everything the Herrett cartridge will do, with none of the hassle and you have the added versatility of being able to use factory ammo. And for hogs, you�re not going to make uber-long shots that require a spitzer type bullet, so a 150 or 170 factory load will do the job like gangbusters. So the only thing the Herrett cartridges gets you is VERY expensive dies, and much more trouble making the ammo. So I say just get a 14� .30-30 barrel and call it good. And the .357 Max won�t do anything a .30-30 won�t do either. So unless you just want to play with one or both of those cartridges, they just don�t really make much sense from a practical standpoint. And hey, if you just want to play with those rounds, I totally understand that. Making cases and just learning about different rounds can be fun. The Herrett cases aren�t tough to make. Get a trim die, that will save you a lot of time.

Now that would be a good setup. .375 Win is a great one.

I don't believe there is a "need" for the Herrett cartridges. I got a .30 Herrett TC barrel back when they were introduced around 1979 (or so). It was the "new thing" and being 19 years old and impressionable, I bought one! Still have the dang thing. Haven't shot .30 Herrett in 30 years!

IIRC a 10" .44 mag Contender barrel will gain 200-300 fps over a 6" revolver, with full tilt loads and slower powders, so I'd expect the same with the 41. You gain not just due to the longer barrel, but also the lack of the barrel-cylinder gap. I never did chrono mine, as it was a POS.

I'd stick to Belm, MGM, or Bullberry barrels, especially if used, as my 10" .44 was lousy. I could shoot better groups at 50 yards with a S&W 629 with iron sights, than my scoped 10" TC

And I have to agree with Kevin on a 14" .30-30. I was around a 10" .30-30 recently and the muzzle blast is vicious.

The .357 Max fell from favor because it was intended to be shot in revolvers and it wasn't overly suited to revolvers,...but it's a dandy in a 10" TC Contender.

I worked with one a lot back in the 80's.

I started out shooting 180 grain cast handgun bullets seated to the crimp groove with it and got good results, but it really came alive when I started using the RCBS 35-200FN bullet which was generally used in the .35 remington.

The .357 MAX Contender barrel has a long enough throat that I was able to seat the bullet very long. I'd seat it just deep enough to cover the lube groove.

Loading in this manner opened up a lot of case capacity. So much that it opened up a whole new propellant burning rate for it.

That's when I started loading it with WW680. (No longer available but pretty much a clone of AA1680)

I cast the 35-200 FN bullet from straight wheelweight alloy and it dropped from the mold weighing 215 grains.

I don't remember the charge weight, but it was a case full. Don't quote me,..but 26.5 grains comes to mind. I primed it with small rifle primers,...the CCI benchrest jobs.

I shot them across my old Chrony and they were doing 1750 out of a 10" barrel,..with no excess pressure signs at all.

You could tilt the barrel up and the case would just drop out,..extremely accurate, too.

It's a *great* chambering for a TC Contender.

As for buying a .357 magnum barrel and having the chamber lengthened for the MAX,..nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't get the throat cut so shallow that you can't shoot the heavier .35 caliber rifle bullets seated out in the manner I described.

In any event, I don't think a bone stock .357 Maximum Contender barrel leaves much room for improvement.

Mine was as accurate as the person shooting it,..and everyone I know who has had one says the same thing.

That's inteteresting Bristoe. Belm suggests that the TC throats/forcing cones are cut improperly for the Mag, but can be rechambered for the Max and that his chambering job fixes the problem. It would be the best of both worlds if a load like you suggest would perform as you say, as long as bullet expansion was adequate.

I'm thinking I could be awful happy with a 12 inch .357 Max barrel. That said, Rocky's .375 setup would be tough to beat for hogs as well.

I've read what Belm says about the TC barrels,..but the .357 MAX TC barrels work.

Good to know, Bristoe.

I think I want to stay away from the 375Win, 35 Rem, 30/30 barrels. I would like to keep the barrel limited to 12" or less and from what I hear, the rifle cartridges just do better with the longer barrels.

That's a shame, Jeffrey. That .375 Super 14 launches a 210 Barnes X at 2000 fps and it shoots cloverleafs at 100 yards, even with factory ammo.

Anybody else interested? I'm liquidating a lot of my shooting stuff at great prices. This barrel and complete outfit is one such; it's already boxed up and ready to go.

[spoiler][/spoiler]



A slight velocity increase in the longer barrels would be the only gain and it ain't really important IMHO & E. The 375 Win, 35 Rem and 30/30 work well in 10 to 12" barrels

Because I've had some interest via PM, here's a list of what's included in my package deal. When I researched it, all this added up to just over $1000 in value, but that was well before the current huge price increases. It's probably a $1400 package if you bought it all new today at retail. I'm asking $600.

This is the barrel I used in my several articles on the round, BTW.

Super 14 bull barrel, blue in .375 Winchester
Burris mounts
Tasco 1.5-4X scope
Hornady dies
180 pieces brass (most of them fired)
120 handloads (you can pull them if you desire, but they are safe)
80 factory loads
Bullets as follows:
100 Sierra 200 FP
100 Hornady 220 FP
150 Speer 235 Semi-spitzer
50 Barnes X 210

Jeff,

It's been 25 years but I had a couple of contenders and too many barrels; Besides the 30 Herret and the 357 Max you ask about I had a slew of barrels as they were only $60 to 100 used.

My favorite centerfire was the .357 Max by far, super easy to reload (you can use 357 carbide dies), and the performance was almost as good as the 35 rem. I was reloading for a bunch of calibers and I found the 30 Herret a bother compared to the 357 Max and it fell by the wayside.

.357 brass is difficult to find right now or at least when I was looking 6 or 8 months ago... at the time Bellm had some but he would only sell it to you if you had him do some work on your contender.

If I were to get back into contenders again, the route I would go would be .22 LR mainly for practice and IF I could locate enough brass the 357 Max and if not a 44 Mag or 45 Colt. And I would stay with the 10 inch barrels (maybe 12" if I could find a holster) for packability. A friend has a 7-30 waters and is quite fond of it but we have no Hogs here. I would also consider the 375 winchester, With lighter loads you can use 38-55 brass or it is very easy to make your own brass from 30-30 (38-55 brass that is). One thing I would avoid would be picking up every barrel that came my way at a good price (which is kind of what I did... ie. no plan).

Also, forget the efficiency argument... I got swept up in this BS as a youth, it has no basis in hunting only in high volume practice or prarie dog or other varmints that you go through a ton of of ammunition shooting.

Jerry