Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Future of the A-10??

I think I also read that the Iraqis shot up a few A10's, when they weren't running from them, and the conclusion was that really good AA, or small missiles would be hell on A10's, was another reason to let them go obsolete.

The A-10 works so it must be phased out.

The A-10 would generally make it back. Any other aircraft that does CAS would get their asses kicked far worse. I would think the A-10 might be the only critter with a chance of surviving a burst from and old Shilka.

There are hundreds of them in mothballs over at Davis-Monthan AFB outside of Tucson. Often wondered (a) why they weren't put back in service for Afghanistan and (b) if they aren't going to use them, why they haven't they just junked them.

Jorge,

Forgive me for being obtuse, but are you saying that the F-35 or even the F-22 is a better CAS tool than the A-10?

Ed

They are in use in Afghanistan., Those at DM are mostly tired old birds that serve to provide spare parts. There is an operational squadron there, think it's the 35th but I'm not sure.

I used to spend some time in an place under an A-10 practice area (not live ammo). What those guys can do just fooling around is incredible, not to mention the live fire demonstration I saw one time.

Not obtuse at all, but given the advance in PGMs (Precision Guided Munitions) since the A-10 was IOC, they would be "almost as good" but the key again is the limited role in can perform. Combine them with the Apache Longbow or even a Cobra and it's one hell of a package. Hell, you're asking the wrong guy, if it were up to me I'd chop Medicare and all that welfare crap and use it to fund the armed forces

Actually they did quite well and survived quite a bit of damage but let's face it the newer SAMs like the SA-10 is hell on any jet.

CAS is very different now than it was even 10 years ago. It's much less common for an aircraft to come anywhere near the actual battle or get their eyes on the target. There are exceptions of course, but the newer weapons just need coordinates and optimized fusing for the most part. The aircraft are just trucks for weapons and with the SDB they can carry a lot of them. I love the A-10, I remember a time we were right next to one in a 60 deg dive while he was tearing up an old CONEX box target with the gun. Very cool! And, while I can make an argument for the A-10, it gets hard to make a cost effective argument for them.

Apaches routinely use "high altitude" tactics in combat in Afghanistan. High altitude is relative though. Let's just say they stay high enough to be out of effective small arms range. Doing so allows for excellent situational awareness and accurate ordnance delivery without undue risk. Apache's typically work in direct support of the Ground Commander, and as such, is usually pretty close by so it's response time is good and it has good time on station. While it doesn't carry as much ordnance as an A10, it is generally more than adequate... The 64D carries 30mm, but the only thing in common with the A10's 30mm is projectile diameter. Still extremely effective though...

John

Actually, although the USAF refuses to acknowledge it, the F-15E is a kick ass CAS jet in today's environment. LOTS of gas (time on station) and lots of weapons.

Bout time you showed up, I've had a hell of a time edumacating the "great unwashed" In reference to your post, over on the 35 thread, I paid great homage to the Strike Eagle and to your platform, the "Bombcat."

As posted after yours, the cost/benefit ratio has to (should be) considered for keeping the airframe, but I can't think of any other platform out there that can linger as long, strike as precise, and operate under the extreme conditions as the A-10.

Granted an Apache Longbow, or even a Cobra, is an amazing platform, but they are much more sensitive to inclement weather than the A-10 and there is something to be said about the maneuverability at lower altitudes that neither the F-22 nor the F-35 can achieve.

Ed

Are you SURE about some of your statements? specifically precision and maneuverability? Do you realize the 35 has VSTOL capabilities and as such "vectored thrust"? Ask the Argentine Mirage pilots about that and the Harriers. Too bad the V/N diagrams are classified. And the 22 will NEVER see a ground attack mission. Not at 200M a copy then let some gomer with a MANPAD shoot a missile up it's tailpipe.

Thanks! The 'ol Bombcat was good for a few hits, but anyway you sliced it we only carried four bombs. They could be big or little, but only four. Not as ideal for CAS. We could also hang around, and that is lacking in the small fighters.

In regards to aircraft survivability, remember, a SDB toting fighter is going to be at 30-40k feet 20 miles away. He's not real concerned about manpads or AAA, and his SDB can hit exactly where he tells it to.

The F-22 could see a few A/G missions, but it will be at 50k' doing 1.5m lofting JDAMS a LOOOONG ways. But certainly never in proximity of a manpad.

NO, I'm not sure. I just rely on what I've been privileged to have seen and, evidently, I haven't seen enough.

My remarks regarding maneuverability were referencing low-level flight in CAS, not VSTOL, though I completely understand that functionality when talking about operating from minimum runways.

My precision comments were in regards to the use of the 30mm cannon, not other precision ordinance.

Having not seen the full capabilities of the F-35, I should not have made such a broad statement.

Let me put another question out for the experts; Do you believe that AF Brass will actually deploy F-35's in a CAS role as a routine, or are they "too valuable"?

Oh, one more thing. Why do we have the F-22?

Ed

They are going to HAVE to employ the 35 in that role. They have no choice. As to why the 22? Wish I could answer that other than for the technology cutting edge angle, short of a full blown general World War we did the right thing in cancelling. Way too much dough (180M). I think we bought about 172 units. On the VSTOL, you can use the vectored thrust to give you out of this world maneuverability.

Yes, the F-35 will eventually be the primary CAS asset. As I mentioned above, how it does CAS is very different.