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Nope Doc Bar was a registered quarter horse

Doc Bar was out of a sir Named Lightening Bar,Lightening Bar was out of a thoroughbred Sir named Three Bars

Thoroughbreds have been used in quarter horse breeding since the 1700's with one of if not the first imported to the US named Janus

I kind of agree with Byron...

What is a quater horse? They were supposed to be 1/4 mile racers but evolved into a mmetling pot of all kinds of breeds to get one thing or the other...

we ruined the breed... HUGE muscular bodies on tiny lil feet....

greed, money, ego, looks.. for what fame and money... it is ashame for the breed.

No the quarter hires breed has not been ruined. The halter horse's have the the association is taking steps to correct this. Performance horse are good to go. A quarter horse is supposed to have explosive quickness and they do. Not just in 440 yard races either. Quarter horses have been clocked at 54.7 MPH by far the fastest breed in the world

My horses have excellent feet and are very shound with tons of endurance, they just go and go. YMMV, but I would take a QH 7 days a week and twice on sunday over any other breed

I do not think there are absolute best at everything horses but those that excel at tasks they were bred for. Take Endurance riding for example. I have seen various horse breeds compete but the most consistent winners are riding Arabians. I have friends who keep Arabs and they have the same type of discussion that is going on here. They speak of their preferred bloodlines and the detrimental influences from the show ring that could potentially introduce undesired traits as they relate to distance/endurance riding.

The same discussion is ongoing within the Rocky Mountain Horse Association about subtle changes that have been noted in certain bloodlines even to the extent of recognition of "new" lines such as the Kentucky Mountain Horse which is not a RMH.

It is unfortunate that people cannot leave well enough alone and stay true to the original bloodlines.

You are correct in part. Certain breeds are better on average than other breeds. Quarter Horses are the quickest, Thoroughbreds are fastest at intermediate races and Arabians in the longer distance races. There will always be exceptions to this

A horse with good feet ail have a bit of a cup to them. Flat footed horses will not be as sure footed

I'd take a Old blood Rocky or a Kentucky over a 1/4 in the hills any day all day and twice on Sunday... much like you would take a select 1/4.
5 years ago I would not have said that.. but today. Well.. I have proof that 1/4's can't keep up. They just aren't bred for it. I'm sure many opinions will differ. But I've been at the trailhead and on many a trail with very well bred 1/4's that just don't have it to go like the Rocky's/Ky's over the distance. Many Rocky's are now making strong showings in the endurance world and soon will be a breed many will have to beat to win it. We get tons of calls from the endurance people wanting to switch over to Rocky's or KY's.

In my opinion and my opinion only the thing with the RM association, the KM association and the MTN Pleasure association is a bunch of ego, size, white marking and political BS!

Rocky's
14.2-16HH only
No wite behind the eye and above the knee
Kentucky's
Class A 13.3HH and up
Class B 11.0-13.3HH
White markings limited to no more than 36" sq in. behind breast bone

Mtn Pleasure Horse
Will probably dissolve into the Rocky assocoation
14.2 HH and up all gaited mtn horses.


Here at the ranch we have many of both and are from pretty much all the same stock. All our studs are thripple registered and with our broodmare selcetion we can pretty much "make" anyting anyone would want..almost like a pizza HAH!

JMHO, YMMV....

Last year on 2 horse's I was training for the hills..

I averaged 31 miles per ride in 7 hours. A few were 35 mile + rides. I rode with a few guys who were on their 1/4's they use in the hills. After mid-day I was alone on the trails. I was back to the trail-head over an hour before they were.

One guy who is born and bred MT native who is very high up in the BHA (Back Country Hunter's and Angler's) was so impressed that he bought 2 Rocky's from us.

What does all this mean.. not much... but Rocky's and Ky's can cover country better, more effcient and with more stamina than most. It's in the breed.

Rocky...


Ky



together at the lunch/turn around point...

If certain breeds of horses were not bred for certain task, it would be a dull world for sure. That is why we have so many breeds.

It's been a few years since put 30-35 miles in the saddle in a day. Now days, I don't like to travel very fast. Fact is, I don't do much very fast any more.

A lot of ground covering ability is also the physical conditioning o f the horse. Since I rid a lot_ 3-4 times a week 4-6 miles each, my ride is kept in pretty good shape and she will out walk most 1/4 horses and TW around here. Mostly because they stand in the corral all day.

Cocadari and JWP475 are both kind of making my point about quarter horses.
JWP, Yes I know Doc Bar was a "quarter horse". A quarter horse bred to run and couldn't, turned halter horse and did well for a while but really excelled when they bred him to those Poco Tivio mare's. Turned the cutting horse world upside down you might say.
You won't get any argument from me about the quarter horse being a good breed, but surely you will agree that the breed has been specialized to death. From halter horses to cutters to ranch horses to the point that sometimes I find it hard to recognize a common type.
Cocodari, In the mountains it's whole different ballgame isn't it.
As much as I love my quarter horses, The best mountain horse I ever had was a paint foxtrotter. She out performed all the quarter horses and walking horses in our group. Her nickname with our friends was the "Energizer Bunny". Was well gaited, and she really liked the running walk.

Truer words never spoken saddlesore. Nothing like a legged up horse.
Drives me absolutely batsheet crazy the people around here that let their horses stand all dang year and won't even put a couple weeks worth of rides on them before taking them to the mountains hunting, then wonder why they end up lame or that they don't have any endurance:(

Rick i certainly do not agree when categorically stated that quarter horses can't keep up. Blanket statements are never true and certainly is not in this case. I've got money that says you won't wear my mare down keeping up. She has a very big motor and so does her sire. If you would have stated in your experience then no disagreement.
I have been around quarter horse all of my life, my father was the first full time paid secretary of the Louisiana Quarter Horse Association, so I do know a lot about them. There are quarter horses that are worthless just like in all breeds but they
I have hunted several time with an outfitter in NM that uses nothing but 1/4 horses in the mountains.

I will take a quality quarter horse 10 to 1 over a mustang

The quarter horse is a very versatile breed with something for every need, choose wisely

Sounds like a horse race in the makin'

jwp475

I think you missed my point entirely. To readdress the subject my point is that horses are bred for specific purposes and I think we all agree on that point. 1/4's are not bred specifically for trail agility and endurance. Their specialties are well known and admired.

Rocky and Kentucky Mountain horses have been developed for the trail and back county and are known for their ability to gait and walk as well as intelligence, hardiness and they are easy keepers. Their capabilities are perhaps not as well known so I can see where not everyone would be able to gauge what the breed has been developed for.

Based on my personal experience the only horses that I can ride with and not have them fall back are American Saddlebreds and Arabians as they can keep pace with the Rockies but the riders admit they get jarred to the bone. The Quarter Horses fall back only because they do not walk the trail at the speed we set, as it is simply is not in their nature as that is not where they demonstrate their ability for speed. Those that are in condition finish fine, they just don't seem to have the ability to execute a sustained fast trail walk when conditions permit and that is where we gain ground. Most often they trot to catch up.

There are exceptions to everything as you noted. I think a lot of the Quarter Horse breed and they dominate many areas but not the trail.

A wise horseman will chose a breed that is more suitable to the most used task at hand, realizing that other task may be accomplished, but maybe with something less than perfect technique. Then they would search the breeding history and see what blood lines have been kept towards the original intent of the breed rather than characteristics that predominate a lot of show rings today.

Example. If I wanted a cowy horse, I'd look around for 1/4's , for traveling I'd look at the Rockies, or Walkers or Fox Trotters, and I'd certainly look at heavy breeds if I was planning on doing harness work. The first criteria for any of them would be their good disposition.

Liken it to selecting a mule.

There is no perfect mule. You find one you think you will like and it likes you. You figure out what you can and cannot put up with and make your decision from that. Because if you will only own a perfect one, you are never going to find one. I think if horseman in general would applyy that to the horse search /ownership, they would be lot happier.

I can think of a couple 1/4 horses I've had you'd wear your jeans out before you could ride them down. Any horse would have been hard pressed to keep their work schedule, much less stay sound. Thats year after year.

I have always wanted to ask the AQHA why it is a horse like Stoli (a horse I think about ideal) or some other race winner can't walk in and win a AQHA halter competition with a bunch of slugs that can't get out of their own way. One reason comes to mind, AQHA judges don't know what their supposed to be looking for.

good point SS. It seems that people buy what they like or looks good, not what is fitting for their application. Then they get frustrated that the horse because it is not doing as good as they want it to. My nephew has a horse. He takes it out on the trail alone. As a parent, the fact that the 16 year old(he was younger when he got the horse and rode it alone)can go out on this horse on the trail alone and not worry is worth it's weight in gold. But he gets frustrated because he brings it into the ring and tries to work it with show horse style of picking up gaits, collection, consistency of speed in each gait.......all the stuff they look for in a horse show because he wants to do some showing. He gets frustrated because the horse does not do well and does not like being used in this application. I told him that he needs to know all sports cars are cars, but not every car is a sports car. Meaning your horse is a great trail horse for you. It has found it's niche and that is on the trail. It does not like ring work so dont get frustrated at the horse because it does not like going in circles.

Mr Austin, That is my point exactly. We have the Orrin Mixer portrait of the ideal and then we have reality. Not really saying there is anything wrong with that. Just openly musing.
saddlesore, You are right of course, but you would have to get more specific than just getting a 1/4 horse if you wanted to cut(not taking you out of context) but you would want to look to certain bloodlines within the breed. And so it goes.