Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Something for the young Earth Creationists:

The young earth creationist? There's more than one on this board. There are probably quite a few of us.

Scott, yes, we live in a great country where we can believe as we choose. No one can allow, or disallow your belief except you, but we can also debate those beliefs in the market place of idea's. How you choose to react to different ideas is your choice. I do enjoy a good debate and the fire has some very skilled apologist.

The original post is a picture of actual British currency, and an invitation for Christians to react. Yes I was interested in how Christians choose to react, and wanted to see where it would go. I was expecting a condemnation of the Brit.gov, or a proclamation about how it was a sign of the apocalypse. Within 7 posts someone had linked it to our founding Rights. Certainly more interesting then anything I expected.

Yes the Catholic Church acknowledges evolution, but you don't survive almost 2000 years without flexing with the times. They will continue to flex and survive.

Hawk, we just disagree on the source. Where you choose to credit God, I credit the original 5000 Patriots, and all those since, who sanctified those rights with the gift of their blood.

In either event, I hope we can agree on the need for vigilance if we wish to preserve those right.

Ok, fine.

Please show me some proof out of those 5,000 that were giving of their lives to propagate Allah, Buddha or any un-named benevolence that they shed blood for.

You can't.

The notion of a natural law and its deity will lead you to an isolated source every time and the rights from such will be even less pronounced.

The realization of liberty ALWAYS comes from patriots, but the notion that patriots are produced in a statist vacuum is the foundation of commies, not free people.

Your yearning for a lack of a Creator (in deflection of human sacrifice) predisposes yourself.

Hawk, with the 5k I was referring our approximate number of battle field deaths during the Revolution. Since the forces were almost entirely Christian on both sides, I'm not sure how a war with Christians killing Christians supports the hypothesis that our rights derive from God?

Of course I may be totally misreading you....

As for a "yearning for a lack of a Creator", it's not about what I want, or what I yearn for, it's about what the evidence supports. IMO the evidence for a Creator is absent.

As I understand your position, all rights are derived from the Christian God. So, is a Christian Society a necessary condition for a free people?

And if it is necessary, is it also sufficient?

Might I suggest "The Art of Power", a book about Thomas Jefferson.

The evidence of a Creator, and creations, are all around you and its not surprising that people like yourself are so far away from the dirt that these very evident things that took thousands of years to freely secure are suddenly "absent", or never existed.

Jefferson was not a fan of one organized religion, but he found enough evidence to base a government upon the Judeo-Christian tennants. It allows people to be self-governing.

What is necessary condition is that free people have a cohesiveness, and a general like minded notion of their laws; ours happen to be Judeo-Christian, and it wasn't by accident.

Now if we were all muslim, there would obviously NOT be a notion that anyone is remotely equal and the idea of such wouldn't be entertained.

Which is why we left a Crown to begin with.....

A couple quick points:

The Roman Catholic denomination, along with many Christians of other denominations, acknowledges Evolution.

The RCC was founded in 1054 AD.

Most, not all, Christian objection to "Evolution" is not to evolution per se but to Philosophical Materialism disguised as Science. The most that Science can say is "we think this is what happened." Science cannot say "why" nor can Science say whether the process was intelligently directed or not. As soon as so-called Science speculates or opines beyond "what," it is no long Science but rather is Metaphysics.

Another log for the fire--- When was the Beginning?

Hawk, Thanks for the clarification on that date, but I thought it was still effectively the same organization that was in charge of the Council of Nicaea in 325CE?

You make some good points. I acknowledge that I am of Judeo-Christian values, and those values were the core around which our Republic coalesced. Of course we've seen the formation of other non-Christian republics, the Greeks, the Romans, and we draw heavily from those values and philosophies as well. England presented a fairly unique set a circumstances that lead to the English Civil War, and our Independence. In many ways I'm beginning to believe the Reformation was more important to the development of our understanding of our rights then Christianity itself.

I am not a young earth Creationist because it cannot be squared with the scientific evidence. I am, however, a Creationist in that I believe the earth and Universe were created by a superior intelligence. Intelligent design is much more consistent with the available scientific evidence than is neo-Darwinism and scientific naturalism.

Jordan

The Catholic chuch does not acknowledge the truth of the all-important, central tenant of evolution, namely that man is an ephiphenomenon of matter. That is, a being without a non-material (spiritual) essence. The Church says that teaching of evolution is incompatible with the truth about man. This is the all-important qualifier that everyone leaves out of the discussion when they try to invoke the authority of Catholicism in support of Darwinism.

Jordan

Like Christ's robe, history is a seamless garment. As I see it, here are the great, watershed events that have formed our world today:

1. The codification of the Moral Law at Sinai

2. Jesus Christ

3. The Protestant Reformation

4. The American Revolution

The Protestant Reformation unleashed individual conscience, and the American Revolution is the Reformation written politically.

"You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Thanks, Jordan, but the notion that man is an epiphenomenon of matter is not Evolution, and it is not Science, it is Philosophical Materialism.

The Roman denomination as well as many other Christians acknowledge that Christian dogma is not necessarily in conflict with Darwin's theory of the descent of species.

All Darwinism can say, at best, is "this is how it happened" in the same way that Science can say this is how a tree grows. Darwinism can say nothing about origins and nothing about whether the process was intelligently directed or not.

That was a rather nice summation of the Pre-Adamite creation. I'll enjoy looking at it more closely when I have the time. Thanks for posting it.

interesting discussions, y'all. and i note noone "yet" has threatened to pull a machete on a proponent of a competing idea.

beyond that, not often mentioned in the Baptist Churches in which i have been a member, is the possible reality that God (YHWH?) blew through sevearl Pre-Admaic attempts at Creation prior to Creation catching hold, and gaining a breeding population of humans.

what i want to know is did Adam and Eve have a belly-button, or not?

Are you on dope?

do you know if Adam & Eve had a belly-button, or not? either one?

who was it that said religion is the opium of the masses? i can't remember. sorry.

maybe some erudite members of the rdrshp will enighten us?

the atomic bomb, the hydrogen bomb, the computer, the internet, space travel to the moon, and Mars. a breedable human population off-Earth. as ol Bob Dylan sayed, the times, they are a-changing.

Whoever said it (Marx, I think), it's a stupid assertion.

Religion, in its broadest meaning is:



In short, everyone is "religious" in that everyone has a belief system in terms of which they interpret life, the cosmos, and more.

What's really meant by the stupid statement is that "belief in God is the opiate of the masses." What the poor simpleton who made the statement doesn't realize that he too is a "believer"�he "believes" God doesn't exist�every bit as much as others believe differently. All of us are believers.

Really too stupid for much comment. God is either there or He isn't . . believe what you will. It's all a matter of belief. Period.

Pay your money and take your chances.