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A while ago I asked Dad (Val) to keep his ears and eyes open for a Mustang. I wanted a big stout, double tough, good moving, 4 wheel drive, mountain pounding Mustang. But he has to have a kind eye and be willing to be a buddy... That was about 9 years ago... Well found him! Dad calls him "Big'un" Not sure if it'll stick or not... He's a monster for a wild pony... You can see a smidge of his brand just off the corner of his left eye. I've got 3 rides on him and so far it's going well and I am very impressed. He move's with raw power and purpose. Seems to want please and seems to be genuine about wanting to be best buddy's. I can tell you this if he wants to quit the earth and turn inside out. I'm gonna look like a stain in the round pen. The power he has is intimidating. But I love it!
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Campfire Ranger
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don't see many mustangs around here with white feet. Wyo caught horse?
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We do think he came origingally outta Wyo. Probably a colt turned loose with the wild ones or someone threw in a draft cross stud colt into a band when times got tough.
The brand is hard to make out the code but we're working on finding the originality of him.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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White hooves in the front on a horse in rough rocky terrain would give me pause.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Cocadori, I hope you got lucky. He looks pretty straight but maybe turned in a little in front. I would put white mustang feet up against black grade horse feet.
Most of the double tough ponies I have ridden have all had long ears. We have talked about mustangs before. I still think they are under-rated for rough country. There are several out behind the house this week.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval. George Santayana
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White hooves in the front on a horse in rough rocky terrain would give me pause.
We shod him yesterday.. these feet are tough as nails regardless of the color... There is no factual basis to 100% support that white feet are always softer.
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Yeah I see where you mean he looks turned in .. the wife surprised me with the picture we were praticing fore quarter turns and walking off and caught me as I was turning right... then I stopped. Kinda looks like he is turned in but he's not.
I agree as well.. With the amount of "stang blood in him I'd put his whites up against any blacks.
I also agree that the Mustang is truly under-rated as a super mountain horse. Truth is many who start the mustangs approach the training like a domestic horse and ther-in lies much of the problems down the road. Thnnk about it. Many of the Mustangs are born and raised in the mountain terrain. Then people say the 1/4's, Walkers, Morgans, Rockies, etc. etc. make a superior mountain horse compared to the Mustangs. Simply not true. Each horse is diifferent. Mountain horses are found in the mind, feet, heart, build, and again the mind .. ;-)
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Campfire 'Bwana
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White hooves in the front on a horse in rough rocky terrain would give me pause.
We shod him yesterday.. these feet are tough as nails regardless of the color... There is no factual basis to 100% support that white feet are always softer. I disagree and so do a lot of race horse trainers
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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I have heard variations of the rhyme on white feet. Here is one.
One white foot, buy him two white feet, try him three white feet, deny him four white feet, give him away
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Campfire Oracle
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One white foot, buy him two white feet, try him three white feet, be shy of him four white feet, deny him Doug Butler has researched hardness as a factor of color and found no scientific basis for hardness differences. LINK For me, it's not that white feet are softer, but *if* soft feet are present, there is a very good chance that the feet are white.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not saying that softness is the problem, but more front foot injuries occur to the front feet of races horse with white feet according to multiple trainers.
I know from experience that it is harder to keep shoes from ripping off of quick horse (cutting horses for example) with white feet. BTDT
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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How many of you ride that much without shoes that you're that worried about white feet? How many of you have had that many shoes pulled off a white foot that you're that worried about it? I wonder how many super good horses have been passed over because they had some white feet? Tis' a shame and ridiculous. To me anyway. There are ways to maintain and check the shoes as you're riding if you are that anxious about it. I suppose there are those who do don't want to pay a good farrier or shell out the extra $10 per foot for a pad? OK so then go buy a truck mud flap and cut your pads from it. You can re-use the pads time and time again... someone once tried that a time or two so I've heard. I would also question why they are taking so much of the dead sole away..ever think it has a purpose? For me white feet will never give me any reason to question or pass over a horse. The color of the pony or the color of his feet are the last thing I look at... if I do at all. This stuff drives me nuts. I suppose because after selling over 80 horses last year things like this come up time and time again and you wonder where the metality of this comes from? I also wonder how may out there have ridden that much, ridden that far to places that far away and back with out getting back "to the barn" to resolve a supposed issue? I have been and know many more who have been and then some, miles and miles away from home for e x t e n d e d periods of time and not worried about there white footed horses. I have had conversations with multiple people about this. Many, many ferriers as well... there are many ways to "get around" a soft errr white foot. I wish more people would spend time worrying about how they ride and how their horse is trained then fretting over if he has white feet... I know I do. I have personally handled, eyeballed and trimmed over 200 different horses in the past 2 years. All of these horses have been barefoot in the MT foot hills on various terrain including ROCKS and A LOT of them. The white feet were not worn more or differently than the black feet. My wife or I ride pretty much every day... cared for correctly soft feet (white I suppose) are not a big deal... There are other things that warrant attention more than that. ugghhhh, no worries that's one of the reasons I have this new pony because someone was worrird about white feet I suppose... their loss, my gain. OK...rant over... off to ride ;-) Keep your mind in the middle ;-) WOW THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!! Finally ... Myth: White hooves are softer and have more problems than black feet. The color of the hoof is influenced by the color of the skin above it, so if a horse has white markings directly above the hoof, the hoof itself may carry the same pigmentation. Many people believe that hooves with black walls are stronger than hooves with white walls.
Master Farrier John Burt owns and operates the JDC School of Basic Farrier Science near Texarkana, Ark. He is a member of and tester for the Brotherhood of Working Farriers Association (BWFA) and a 2001 inductee to the BWFA Hall of Fame. John says, "There is no quality difference on the same horse, no scientific data to sustain any difference. The white and the black hoof are both designed the same structurally; the texture and quality of the hoof is the same."
One of the foremost experts in his field, Doug Butler, Ph.D., of LaPorte, Colo., is the author of The Principles of Horseshoeing, one of the most widely used texts on horseshoeing in the world. He also has 30 years of teaching experience and acts as a consultant and lecturer on horseshoeing. In 1976 while doing research at Cornell University, he conducted a study on white versus black hooves by taking squares of hoof material and crushing them in a compressor.
"There was no difference between black and white," he agrees. "The main difference was in moisture content: The softer hooves fell apart easier." He notes that genetics also play a role in hoof strength. "Some Paint Horses have extremely brittle white hooves and others don�t. Appaloosas seem to have extremely strong feet, no matter what color; genetic propensity seems to be more important than the color of the hoof."
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Myths die hard.
Often wondered if the U. S. Cavalry selection criteria for remounts took into account white versus black feet. Photographs I have seen show a propensity for solid color and very little white markings.
Probably a topic for another thread would be a discussion on the reliability of shod versus unshod horses.
Wayne
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A lot of what vets and farriers have learned recently has been from examining mustano feet. I ran my mules barefoot. Once for a trail ride up in the high Cascades of Oregon which is pure andesite and angular fractured rocks, I shoed the fronts on my good molly. After 120-130 miles or so the front feet and back feet looked the same.
Race horses have rarely been bred for good feet. Most other breeds haven't been until recently. Bad feet or even average feet on a mustang can cost him his life.
I liked to trim the mule feet pretty often. When they get too long the inside edge of the hoof is usually the first place to flake off. I like the "mustang roll" taught to me by a good farrier and teamster from Smith Valley, NV. It replicates the natural rounding off of the toe shown by mustangs that travel for a living in rough country.
I met a good horse hand in the last few years that has become a clinician. He says one of the most important things in raising a good horse for the mountains is to turn them out as foals on rough ground. Let them grow up going up and down hill, traveling on rocks and playing in streams. Horses that live in flat corrals with soft sand sometimes never really learn to be comfortable hanging on a rocky trail 8 inches wide.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval. George Santayana
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I had a ferrier once that agreed with Cocardori as far as white feet go. Some, it seems, are fairly hard.
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Cocadori, I liked this post. I'd much rather look at overall build than what color their feet are. Our outfitting horses go up and down the trail and X country all summer/fall. I don't notice any difference. We just use them. Sure we have horses that can't hack it, but it is almost never because of hoof problems. Whether Big'un sticks or not, it does fit. How many of you ride that much without shoes that you're that worried about white feet? How many of you have had that many shoes pulled off a white foot that you're that worried about it? I wonder how many super good horses have been passed over because they had some white feet? Tis' a shame and ridiculous. To me anyway. There are ways to maintain and check the shoes as you're riding if you are that anxious about it. I suppose there are those who do don't want to pay a good farrier or shell out the extra $10 per foot for a pad? OK so then go buy a truck mud flap and cut your pads from it. You can re-use the pads time and time again... someone once tried that a time or two so I've heard. I would also question why they are taking so much of the dead sole away..ever think it has a purpose? For me white feet will never give me any reason to question or pass over a horse. The color of the pony or the color of his feet are the last thing I look at... if I do at all. This stuff drives me nuts. I suppose because after selling over 80 horses last year things like this come up time and time again and you wonder where the metality of this comes from? I also wonder how may out there have ridden that much, ridden that far to places that far away and back with out getting back "to the barn" to resolve a supposed issue? I have been and know many more who have been and then some, miles and miles away from home for e x t e n d e d periods of time and not worried about there white footed horses. I have had conversations with multiple people about this. Many, many ferriers as well... there are many ways to "get around" a soft errr white foot. I wish more people would spend time worrying about how they ride and how their horse is trained then fretting over if he has white feet... I know I do. I have personally handled, eyeballed and trimmed over 200 different horses in the past 2 years. All of these horses have been barefoot in the MT foot hills on various terrain including ROCKS and A LOT of them. The white feet were not worn more or differently than the black feet. My wife or I ride pretty much every day... cared for correctly soft feet (white I suppose) are not a big deal... There are other things that warrant attention more than that. ugghhhh, no worries that's one of the reasons I have this new pony because someone was worrird about white feet I suppose... their loss, my gain. OK...rant over... off to ride ;-) Keep your mind in the middle ;-) WOW THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!! Finally ... Myth: White hooves are softer and have more problems than black feet. The color of the hoof is influenced by the color of the skin above it, so if a horse has white markings directly above the hoof, the hoof itself may carry the same pigmentation. Many people believe that hooves with black walls are stronger than hooves with white walls.
Master Farrier John Burt owns and operates the JDC School of Basic Farrier Science near Texarkana, Ark. He is a member of and tester for the Brotherhood of Working Farriers Association (BWFA) and a 2001 inductee to the BWFA Hall of Fame. John says, "There is no quality difference on the same horse, no scientific data to sustain any difference. The white and the black hoof are both designed the same structurally; the texture and quality of the hoof is the same."
One of the foremost experts in his field, Doug Butler, Ph.D., of LaPorte, Colo., is the author of The Principles of Horseshoeing, one of the most widely used texts on horseshoeing in the world. He also has 30 years of teaching experience and acts as a consultant and lecturer on horseshoeing. In 1976 while doing research at Cornell University, he conducted a study on white versus black hooves by taking squares of hoof material and crushing them in a compressor.
"There was no difference between black and white," he agrees. "The main difference was in moisture content: The softer hooves fell apart easier." He notes that genetics also play a role in hoof strength. "Some Paint Horses have extremely brittle white hooves and others don’t. Appaloosas seem to have extremely strong feet, no matter what color; genetic propensity seems to be more important than the color of the hoof."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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A lot of what vets and farriers have learned recently has been from examining mustano feet. I ran my mules barefoot. Once for a trail ride up in the high Cascades of Oregon which is pure andesite and angular fractured rocks, I shoed the fronts on my good molly. After 120-130 miles or so the front feet and back feet looked the same.
Race horses have rarely been bred for good feet. Most other breeds haven't been until recently. Bad feet or even average feet on a mustang can cost him his life.
I liked to trim the mule feet pretty often. When they get too long the inside edge of the hoof is usually the first place to flake off. I like the "mustang roll" taught to me by a good farrier and teamster from Smith Valley, NV. It replicates the natural rounding off of the toe shown by mustangs that travel for a living in rough country.
I met a good horse hand in the last few years that has become a clinician. He says one of the most important things in raising a good horse for the mountains is to turn them out as foals on rough ground. Let them grow up going up and down hill, traveling on rocks and playing in streams. Horses that live in flat corrals with soft sand sometimes never really learn to be comfortable hanging on a rocky trail 8 inches wide. Feet are the most important part of any horse especially a race horse, to say they are not bred to have good feet is ridiculous. A race can not stand the pounding without good feet
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I seldom shoe my horses. It is better to not shoe as much as many did in past
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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How many of you ride that much without shoes that you're that worried about white feet? How many of you have had that many shoes pulled off a white foot that you're that worried about it? I wonder how many super good horses have been passed over because they had some white feet? Tis' a shame and ridiculous. To me anyway. There are ways to maintain and check the shoes as you're riding if you are that anxious about it. I suppose there are those who do don't want to pay a good farrier or shell out the extra $10 per foot for a pad? OK so then go buy a truck mud flap and cut your pads from it. You can re-use the pads time and time again... someone once tried that a time or two so I've heard. I would also question why they are taking so much of the dead sole away..ever think it has a purpose? For me white feet will never give me any reason to question or pass over a horse. The color of the pony or the color of his feet are the last thing I look at... if I do at all. This stuff drives me nuts. I suppose because after selling over 80 horses last year things like this come up time and time again and you wonder where the metality of this comes from? I also wonder how may out there have ridden that much, ridden that far to places that far away and back with out getting back "to the barn" to resolve a supposed issue? I have been and know many more who have been and then some, miles and miles away from home for e x t e n d e d periods of time and not worried about there white footed horses. I have had conversations with multiple people about this. Many, many ferriers as well... there are many ways to "get around" a soft errr white foot. I wish more people would spend time worrying about how they ride and how their horse is trained then fretting over if he has white feet... I know I do. I have personally handled, eyeballed and trimmed over 200 different horses in the past 2 years. All of these horses have been barefoot in the MT foot hills on various terrain including ROCKS and A LOT of them. The white feet were not worn more or differently than the black feet. My wife or I ride pretty much every day... cared for correctly soft feet (white I suppose) are not a big deal... There are other things that warrant attention more than that. ugghhhh, no worries that's one of the reasons I have this new pony because someone was worrird about white feet I suppose... their loss, my gain. OK...rant over... off to ride ;-) Keep your mind in the middle ;-) WOW THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!! Finally ... Myth: White hooves are softer and have more problems than black feet. The color of the hoof is influenced by the color of the skin above it, so if a horse has white markings directly above the hoof, the hoof itself may carry the same pigmentation. Many people believe that hooves with black walls are stronger than hooves with white walls.
Master Farrier John Burt owns and operates the JDC School of Basic Farrier Science near Texarkana, Ark. He is a member of and tester for the Brotherhood of Working Farriers Association (BWFA) and a 2001 inductee to the BWFA Hall of Fame. John says, "There is no quality difference on the same horse, no scientific data to sustain any difference. The white and the black hoof are both designed the same structurally; the texture and quality of the hoof is the same."
One of the foremost experts in his field, Doug Butler, Ph.D., of LaPorte, Colo., is the author of The Principles of Horseshoeing, one of the most widely used texts on horseshoeing in the world. He also has 30 years of teaching experience and acts as a consultant and lecturer on horseshoeing. In 1976 while doing research at Cornell University, he conducted a study on white versus black hooves by taking squares of hoof material and crushing them in a compressor.
"There was no difference between black and white," he agrees. "The main difference was in moisture content: The softer hooves fell apart easier." He notes that genetics also play a role in hoof strength. "Some Paint Horses have extremely brittle white hooves and others don�t. Appaloosas seem to have extremely strong feet, no matter what color; genetic propensity seems to be more important than the color of the hoof." I doubt that you will have this horse pull a shoe, I've never experienced a problem except on extremely quick cuts at high speed with a powerful horse. The front feet take the biggest pounding.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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