Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Patent date buttplate?

This showed up on eBay this week (closed a few minutes ago). Is this really from a 99? Have we discussed this before?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330938676583?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Rod

Fixed it for you, Rod.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Savage-99-1899-Butt-Plate-Unusual-One-/330938676583

Thanks. Ever seen one like this?

Rod

Rod,

I had been watching that, I finally did some research just this morning when there were just a few hours left. Some of my observations & findings-

-You will not find even one of those patent dates on a Savage rifle.

-If it is really a Savage butt plate the serial number is probably correct, the seller assumed it had to be missing a digit to put in the date range of the last patent date � but those dates seem to have nothing to do with Savage so they could have been applied at any time.

-I also started to look at the application dates of Savage patents � none matched up into the 1900�s so I didn�t look any farther for those. All but the last date listed were Tuesday�s � patents were only granted on Tuesdays making it look like these are patent dates and not application dates. I had never looked much at application dates before so I checked some for the Savage patents and found a couple were Mondays, a Friday, a Tuesday, & a Wednesday so if application dates you would expect to find almost every week day covered with this many dates.

-I looked at some Winchester & Marlin patents that I have copies of & no matching dates there either.

-I then looked at firearm related patents that were issued on those dates, anywhere for 0 to 8. I did not find any for the third date Jul 19, 1898 or for the last Jul 15, 1915 � the last one was not a Tuesday so I did not expect to find any patents for that.

- I did not find any obvious thing common to firearms patents for all those dates, the only thing that even seems to connect the dates is that there are patents relating to semi-auto�s for most of the dates (but there are other patents too) and there are two names that show up with patents more than once, Mauser & McClean, and others that show up once, Bergmann & Maxim, who are associated with early semi-autos.

The date Oct 22, 1912 was listed 3 times � of 669 patents assigned that day there were 6 firearms classified patents; 1042145, 1042135, 1042007, 1041928, 1041804, & 1041719 and I see nothing to connect any combination of three of these � you can look them up on GOOGLE patents - two are for toy guns. Maybe someone will see some possible conection.

Holy Cow. Amazing.

Gene, you are the research guru! Some day I'll be begging you to research my family tree. Probably walnut.

Yes. Loggah has at LEAST one in his collection. Fug has several as far as I know. They ARE out there.

The side view looks like Savsge but it is not cupped...just flat metal.

Good work Gene!!!

Not good enough - the theme of automatic patents on those dates could be the connection, the serial number on the back that makes the plate seem to be Savage ... it might just be Savage. Here is a link to a similar plate that was not made by Savage, about the forth picture shows patent dates in another format on the plate (there is a note that says Savage made plates had patents stamped different). I knew I had seen a plate like that before but could not place it until now --- Lewis Machine Gun. lewis-gun-mk-ii

I wish I had found this before the auction closed .....

Hopefully someone can confirm if this is Savage and for a Lewis Machine gun, the dates are not exactly the same.

Not a very good view but I think this one is Savage - Lewis-1

I think you are right Gene
It is 17 years since I sold my Savage Lewis Gun & instruction manuals
Only last year I sold my copy of the Belgian Rattlesnake
http://www.dragonsoffire.com/The-Belgian-Rattlesnake.php
In this book there is a photo of the butt plate
So if somebody has a copy or can look at one they would confirm it
Cheers Graham

Try this
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/light-machine-guns/lewis-light-machine-gun/?nggpage=3

On this site
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/light-machine-guns/lewis-light-machine-gun/?nggpage=3

Good work guys. We are still learning.

Thanks Graham; The picture there confirms it. I thought that a picture of one of those plates was posted here some years ago but I could not find the thread no matter how I searched so maybe not, it was so long ago I am not even sure if it was a Savage plate I saw or a British.

There is a class three dealer local to me that has a Savage Lewis in 303 British but he hasn't had it out for a couple years (if he still has it) and it always was displayed so you couldn't see the back of the butt plate. He was asking $18,000 about 2 years ago if anyone is interested ....

Sad in many ways that I live out here it the so called "Great Northwest." When I retired from the Army since I could no longer claim Wisconsin residency I had to sell my Thompson and MP40. Legal in Wisconsin but not in Washington. It used to be a real kick when I'd go home to to my parent's place where they were stored and take them out to the local gravel pit and run a couple hundred dollars worth of ammo through them.