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Bears are notorious for leaving faint bloodtrails. There fur is like a sponge and their fat plugs the hole many times. +1 +2 +3 Especially Fall bears with lots of fat. Also, IME many black bears drop at the shot -- no matter how trivial the bullet damage -- and then get up. One that my friend shot with a .270 had a small graze along his foot. The bear dropped, then jumped up and ran off, but succumbed to a second shot through the lungs. Why not, + 4. Possible marginal hit, no expando mono bullet b/c of minimal resistance, bear sponge effect = run away bear. Not sure how far you searched, but f he dn't drop blood and ran a good distance before stopping, he obviously would be hard to track. I'm sorry to hear you didn't recover him. I always like to put at least a couple holes in them, especially in an area w/thick brush. Partner did the same with his .338 and a wolf looking almost straight on at him. That guy did have a faint blood trail that we followed 1/4 - 1/2 mile in fairly open country. Sucked, especially when he thought he pounded him good! In retrospect, we think the bullet went in just inside the shoulder (from the chest) and exited between the shoulder and the ribs. That said, I'm not sure I'd change bullets based on a smoke size of one, especially when I think you'll get numerous endorsements for the Barnes bullets. YMMV, Bob
Last edited by Akbob5; 07/05/13.
Bob Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date. ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yep, no surprise from the sometimes non-expanding mono.
Switch to the 200gr Ballistic Silver Tips and you will get bigger holes.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Frankly...
After some experience guiding folks I can understand why the guides always hated guiding anybody with the 338. It was always a situation where hubris, inexperience, or basic failure caused problems... but they always seemed to happen with 338 shooters.
The shot was clearly bad...
The 338 produces a huge percentage of "bad" shots based on nothing more than excess recoil...
When clients got off the plane we would line up and try to get as much info as possible to influence the pairing of guide and hunter. Another old guide friend and I were talking about that just this evening. We hated anything over 30 caliber...
Yeah, we had hunters that could shoot them... but not many. The 338 is huge overkill for black bear. I have seen a bunch of 338 flinches and make no bones about saying few handle it well.
Location Bullet Nothing else matters...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Yep, no surprise from the sometimes non-expanding mono.
Switch to the 200gr Ballistic Silver Tips and you will get bigger holes. I've had good luck with those before.....
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Sitka thanks for the response, I slightly disagree with the 338 being to much gun. I have shot 3 other bears with the same gun, 2 were a "1 and done"(with a different bullet) The 3rd was with insurance rounds to keep the bear away from the hounds. I also put this one on paper as good as the others.
I obviously pulled the shot, more so on excitement than recoil. It was the second bear to come to the bait plus it was the first day so that may be contributors.
Thanks again for the response.
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Akbob, I agree I should have followed up with another shot. I didn't think he was going to jump up (getting to be a famous line) Also I didn't fully understand the performance of the TSX, I just heard they were good.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Cannot tell you how many I have seen claiming it was not too much gun... While results spoke otherwise. Please do not feel like I am asking for an answer. Look at what happened and make your own mind up privately.
It is serious overkill for black bears.
Why would you think it was excitement and not recoil?
A friend could not kill a bedded B&C Sitka blacktail with the 338 at just over 100 yards yet maintained it was not the rifle... I thought differently.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Sitka, I am basing it on results I shot three other bears with this rifle.
again I appreciate the conversation and info.....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yep, a 338 is "serious overkill" for most men to handle and for black bear killin...Damn sure don't want to kill them bears too dead
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Tracker
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Akbob, I agree I should have followed up with another shot. I didn't think he was going to jump up (getting to be a famous line) Also I didn't fully understand the performance of the TSX, I just heard they were good. K_J, Stuff happens! Our baits were in pretty thick stuff so I always tried to anchor them quickly. I lost a bear when I was a pretty green hunter. In fact, if I had been more persistent and done a better tracking job, I probably would have recovered him. Not something I'm proud of, but certainly something I tried to learn from. Happy Hunting, Bob
Bob Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date. ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Too much gun/bullet?
Corelokts in a 30-30, or .30-06 would have worked as well or better from said stand. IMO.
Blackies don't take a lot of killing- just a bit of time when even well hit. Like moose. Like said, the fat tends to block drainage with anything. If well hit, it didn't go 250 yards.
I took my first moose with a .30-30, and a bunch of moose and black bears since with various calibers. Not any difference, that I can tell, but a .338 (I have one) with TSX is way more than needed for blackies. Still should do the job if properly placed.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Campfire Ranger
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The best blood trails, IMO and E, are those which leak from the nose or mouth. Generally that means a good stir of the lungs. One of Barnes' positive attributes is the fact that they don't ruin lots of meat. Hence they don't create the trauma pockets as large as some other bullet designs typically do. And they don't expand as well and as reliably as some people believe or claim. (That applies anyway, to the TSX; the TTSX is hopefully a significant improvement.)
I really think you'd probably have been better off with a 210 Partition, or even something like a similar weight TTSX. As you probably are aware, 50 yards can be a incredibly long run when the undergrowth is thick. A bear, especially after it recovers from an initial 'knock-out', can be an incredibly tough prospect to put down. Consequently, it would not surprise me to learn that a 'dead bear' put some serious distance on during his last efforts.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I re-read my post and forgot to mention he turn to bite at his side when he skidded forward.
I think you guys are right that it was a marginal hit at best, if at all.....I don't think it was a clean miss judging by his actions.
I was a little concerned about the performance of the bullet.
What's your thoughts on moving to a 210 Nosler Partition?
I'm prejudiced agin 'em. I'd use them on caribou, maybe (overkill!), but plain janes work just as well. The last couple 'bou I killed were taken at range with a 140 gr .260 Corelokt. I once (first and last time I used the 210 NP .338 on game - tho they shot OK on paper), the 50" bull moose went down, shoulder shot at about 100 yards. I walked up on him and at about 10 feet he surged to his feet again. Scared the crap out of me. The second shot basically up his nose did the job - and I quit approaching game from the front... The near shoulder blade was shattered, the near lung peppered with bits of lead and bone. The far lung was untouched, and I never found the rear half of the bullet. I think it must have ricocheted back out the entrance wound. Never used them again--and I still have about 100 rounds of those bullets. That was about 30 years ago.. I can carry a grudge... For black bears (and damned near anything else in NA) I'd recommend a 225 or 250 plain jane in the .338 for anything under 300 yards. The premiums offer a slight advantage beyond that, possibly for big bears (I have no experience there), and possibly for raking shots you probably ought not be taking anyway. Unless they offer a significant accuracy advantage in your particular rifle... If you have to peg an escaping wounded animal from bunghole to eppiglotis, I'd choose a a premium.. I like the Trophy Bonded terminal performance myself, over the NP. I've used both tho I've not ever had any real need for either, and have largely gone back to plane-janes.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Frankly...
After some experience guiding folks I can understand why the guides always hated guiding anybody with the 338. It was always a situation where hubris, inexperience, or basic failure caused problems... but they always seemed to happen with 338 shooters.
The shot was clearly bad...
The 338 produces a huge percentage of "bad" shots based on nothing more than excess recoil...
When clients got off the plane we would line up and try to get as much info as possible to influence the pairing of guide and hunter. Another old guide friend and I were talking about that just this evening. We hated anything over 30 caliber...
Yeah, we had hunters that could shoot them... but not many. The 338 is huge overkill for black bear. I have seen a bunch of 338 flinches and make no bones about saying few handle it well.
Location Bullet Nothing else matters... Damn, Art! My .338 doesn't recoil as much as my '06's... Of course, my Ruger .338 is Mag-Na-Ported, with 880 Decelerator pad, stick-on cheek piece (makes it fit me off-hand with the high mounts for the 3.5-10X scope- and ya, I know it's over-scoped...) and weighs in all tricked out at about 10 lbs. Other than glass bedding and the above, it's factory.. It's my short range, often off-hand, moose-hunting rifle in thick stuff/ brown bear country...but it's good to 500 or so, with a rest.. Ain't kilt nothing over 100 with it since I acquired it, except a couple caribou out of Barrow a few years back, at about 200... - besides, it's accurate.... As opposed to the also accurate OM Ruger '06 with the 17 inch barrel, otherwise mostly factory standard, which I commonly carry in high-country/ open tundra hunting - good to 400 or so - assuming I have a fair range estimation.. Only "failure" I've ever had with the .338 was when I forgot the bolt at home after cleaning it from the previous weekend's rainy hunt... As a guide, I realize YMMV with DSMFs.., not that I ain't are one, but then I don't use guides.. But caliber never trumps placement.
Last edited by las; 07/06/13.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Thanks Bob, I think it would of been easier if this was one of my first bears....
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Klikitarik, las
I'm thinking of changing the bullet. Corelokts worked and my first bear fell into the barrel then backwards with Winchester silvertips out of a 7mm mag.
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