Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Lil 'Gun?

I seem to recall a couple of posts warning against using Lil 'Gun in revolvers, perhaps due to excessive erosion or top strap cutting; but I can't seem to find them and I don't care to go from memory. Anyone have any experience? If it is real, is this just a revolver problem?

I have far more of it than I will ever use in my Hornet and would like to burn some in my .44 mag carbine.

I think you may be confused. Guns like the S&W 19 have issues with hot loads of slow powder behind short bullets. This allows a little flame-cutting behind and in front of the short (IE 125gr 357) projectile. Don't use short little bullets and you'll be fine, IMO.

Look at the Freedom Arms forum. I shoot FAs and Contenders. My 353 is moa with most 180 lead or jacketed. I have used Lil'Gun in 357,454 and 475 alot, with excellent results.
I just started messing with MP300 in 454. (very promising starting loads 1605fps/310 SWCs)(my experience with 300 has been SCARY pressure signs with starting loads in 357magnum!)
It seems FA has had issues and basically says you have no warranty with Lil'Gun in their firearms.
No other warnings that I am aware of...

The powder has little flame retardant on it. It generates too much heat. It is erosion from the high temperatures.
12 rounds through a Freedom .357 and we could not touch the barrel.

I used it in 357. 6 rounds through my Blackhawk and it was very hot. It burns noticeably hotter than 296 / H110 at similar velocities.

Ernie

I used it in one of my 500 smith's. I didn't notice much of a difference. Some say it will cause erosion, others have used it for years and have not had problems. I wouldn't be afraid to use it if that's what I had. H110 is still my go to powder though.

Lil"Gun burns extremely hot and is hard on forcing cones. Freedom Arms tested the powder and recommends against the use of Li'Gun

You can call them and ask for Bob Baker he is the owner and he conducted the test

Good to know.

It works great for me with heavyweight bullets in 44 mag.. Lightweight bullets will accelerate throat erosion anyway.

Here's one of the threads. I believe there were several over the years:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread...eedom/Search/true/Re_S_W_500#Post7637917

Here's a comment from Bob Baker. I believe he owns Freedom Arms.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=180437.0


We have seen numerous barrels damaged by using Lil Gun. According to customers, some had as few as 30 rounds using Lil Gun through them, some had several hundred. Before we figured out what was happening one customer had sent his gun in for a new barrel. Then 600 rounds later it came back for another new barrel.

A couple years ago we did a test with a M83, .357 Mag. using Hornady 180 gr. bullets. We loaded 50 rds. of three different loads. One was a heavy H-110 load and the other two both used Lil Gun in different quantities.

We fired the H-110 loads first, then cut off the threaded end of the barrel. Rethreaded the barrel and shot one of the Lil Gun loads then rethreaded the barrel and shot the last Lil Gun load.

We found even the light load of Lil Gun caused the gun to get extremely hot. The heavy Lil Gun load had the gun so hot the only place we could touch the gun was on the grips and they were very hot.

Under magnification the surface appeared to have heated to a point of flowing using the Lil Gun loads and the heavy load was worse than the light load. This is probably due to Lil Gun having about 10% more nitro glycerin in it than H-110.

It worked great for me from the standpoint of both accuracy and velocity, too. Once I learned what it did to many people's guns, though, I transitioned all my Lil Gun loads to H110, N110, 1680 or 4227. .

Been shooting 'Lil gun in my 22 Hornet. (stainless barrel)

You'all think this powder is hot enough to burn the throat out prematurely???

Thanks! Virgil B.

I use it in my Hornet also, no I don't think the 13 gr we use there will cause a problem. If you dig around in enough of his posts, you will see that Mule Deer fires a bunch of .22 Hornet Lil 'Gun loads each year and it seems to have caused no discernible wear.

Which brings me back to what I meant to ask originally, will Lil 'Gun cause excess wear in my .44 carbine?


Edited to add: Thank you all for your input.

I use it all the time in my Hornet and don't see problem. I just don't use it in my handguns anymore.

Ernie

Is your 44 a autoloader, or lever gun? I read that Lil Gun the wrong powder for the Ruger Deerstalker, but have never shot one. I have used LG in my Marlin 1894, and got higher pressures than I was supposed to get, according to Hodgdon's data, in my loads. But I got significantly higher velocities than with H110 in bullet weights from 225-250 gr. It is the most accurate powder I've tried with Hornady FTX 225's. In the end, H110/W296 performed with more consistency with several different makes of bullet in 240-250 gr, though with lower velocities than Lil Gun by about 100fps. I went for consistency.

My brother uses LG in his Marlin in 357 Mag almost exclusively. He loves it for the velocity and accuracy with heavier jacketed bullets, which for him has been head and shoulders above other powders.

I use LG in my 218 Bee contender, and so far it has outperformed any other powder. My bro has the same experience in his 221 fireball. I have yet to discern any noticeable extra heat or barrel wear in any gun. All of that said, I trust what the Freedom Arms folks say about revolvers, and have avoided LG in my revolver loads. I see no reason not to use it in lever, break-open, or bolt guns, though.

Mine is a Winchester 94. I think I'll load up 5 with a starting charge of LG and 5 with H110 and compare the perceived heat of the barrel after shooting each.

I don't know about lower capacity cases like the Hornet. The first warning I heard about Lil Gun concerned the 460 Smith and light, 200 grain, bullets and I thought that was the only area of concern: very large capacity cases and light for caliber bullets. After reading the FA info, it seemed it was also a problem for other cartridges and heavier bullets, given that most were still fairly large capacity cases. I chose to just quit using it.

Nothing to do with burn rate, throw the chart away. All powders vary with burn rate, nothing to do with heat. Nothing to do with where pressure peak is in any caliber either.

From what I understand, heat is exactly what the issue is, due to higher nitro glycerine content.