Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Who is shooting 30 cal Speer Grand Slam 150s?

Hey all.

I got a couple boxes of these for free when I replaced my scale this spring. I'm going to load them in M700 30-06. Can you give me an idea how they work on BIG game? Have read experience has varied because of the design change. They're short and stubby, and aren't suitable for longer shots in my gun, but I wanting to know if anyone has shot them at elk, and what the results were? Planning to load them with H4350 or maybe IMR4064. Really, with shortages, I'll be loading them with whatever I have that gets me to the top end.

Thanks in advance. I am appreciating the vast store of knowledge that I have access to here at the Fire.

The old style was one of my favorite bullets. I stopped using them when they switched to the new form.

As far as I'm concerned, they are now simply expensive cup and core. I's rather shoot their Deep Curl.

Thanks, MichiganScott. That has been the same view I have heard elsewhere. I would rather shoot their Deep Curl as well.

I am still wondering if I could confidently put this bullet in the gun when deer AND elk are on the menu, or if it is just a better idea to shoot them at deer. I already have several hundred bullets that work for deer though. Was hoping since Grand Slams were once considered premiums that I may be able to hunt elk with them. Seems like a few things are making that a poor idea: light bullet, wee BC, cup&core construction.

I'm back to loading 165 grain Grand Slams (picked up 150s and 180s in the same deal) for my girlfriend to use in her 308 for everything from antelope to elk. Had a hard time finding Accubonds and her gun never really warmed up to Partitions.
These are the old style in the clear yellow box with dual cores.

Antelope heart, went stem to stern on this doe and exited:

Heart and Lung soup, but didn't blow up the paunch

HuntnShoot,

A lot of people assume that because the DeepCurl is bonded that it will penetrate deeply on game larger than deer. But just because a bullet is bonded doesn't mean its magic. The thickness and design of the jacket still have a major effect on expansion and penetration.

The DeepCurl was designed to open wide and create a large wound channel on DEER. Opening widely means it won't penetrate all that deeply, as some people have found when shooting elk and other large game. The same thing is true of the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded. As a matter of fact, the jackets are so thin on both bullets that the jackets fragment more than most bonded bullets. They work fine on deer, and will definitely kill bigger game with broadside shots through the ribs, but are NOT a good design for heavy bone or truly deep penetration.

As far as the new model of Speer Grand Slams, they are indeed just a heavier-jacketed version of the Hot-Cor Speers. Contrary to what some people believe, injecting molten lead into the Hot-Cors or Grand Slams does NOT create a bonded bullet. Instead they're cup-and-cores, but with the core injected instead of swaged. The jacket easily peels away from the core.

When the new version of the Grand Slam came out I got a box of 200-grain .30's and loaded them in a .300 Winchester Magnum to about 2900 fps, then shot the bullets into dry newspaper. This is my standard "tough" test for expanding bullets, since it basically duplicates shooting into larger bone. Two of the five bullets lost their cores, and none penetrated nearly as deeply as a 200-grain Nosler Partition also shot into newspaper as a control bullet.

Killed this cow elk using 150 gr .277" Speer Grand Slam in my .270 Wby loaded to 3250 fps and was NOT impressed. Took 5-6 shots to bring it down and the final shot too the head at about 20 +/- yards did NOT exit. Funny thing is I had 160 gr NP and never thought of using them. None of the shots were over 100 yds.

IIRC no bullets reached the other side of ribcage.

Sounds like the same design as what Berger claims for their hunting vld. Does the same caution apply thereto?

Not at all. The Hunting VLD is very different. It's not bonded, and the very long point allows it to penetrate 2-3" before the bullet expands. Most people assume the VLD is a hollow-point, but the point is actually closed, with some air-space behind the point. They usually poke a hole like knitting needle on entrance, sometimes so small you have to part the hair to find it. Once they get inside the point collapses and they expand violently.

The Core-Lokt Ultra and DeepShok start to expand when they hit hide, just like other soft-point bullets, the reason the area around the entrance usually has the most blood-shot meat damage. The rear of the bullet usually remains intact, though exactly how much depends on what the bullet hits and velocity. But the front end tends to fragment, due to the thin jacket.

With VLD's there's normally minimal meat damage around the entrance hole, if any. Instead the damage takes place inside the chest cavity or on the far side, if the fragments get there. At closer ranges it's pretty rare to find anything bullet fragments inside the animal, but at longer ranges some sort of mushroom can often be found.

Ive tried the newer ones in 150, 180 and 200 grain and couldn't get them to shoot very well. However, the Hot-Cors and BT shoot fine for me. Never tried the Mag-Tips.

Yikes! Thanks to all for the replies, and especially to Mule Deer for laying out the differences in bullet characteristics. Sounds like I am best served by shooting the Grand Slams like a std c/c bullet, rather than a tough bullet.

I don't like the idea of light, soft bullets for big animals, though I am sure they would be fine within a few limits. I already have bullets that would likely perform better within those limits though, such as the Berger VLD. Though my sample size is much, much smaller than Mule Deer's, I've seen exits on every broadside shot so far, including an elk, with an impact speed of about 2700fps.

I think I want the Deepcurls to perform better terminally than they do. I've read Speer's pitch that they are for deer-sized animals. I've yet to try any, but they are so inexpensive, and they're bonded! It is hard for me to shuck the 'bonded' propaganda, I guess, which leads me to...

I've got 165 and 180 IBs that both shoot really well that will likely be my 'any reasonable shot' bullets. Maybe it will be moot, and I'll get my elk in the timber opening morning with 44 Marlin and 240 XTP this year.

The Interbonds work pretty darn well.

And they were incredibly simple to work up an accurate load for, in my gun. I just followed your recommendation, Mule Deer. H4350 for the 165s, with an arbitrarily picked COL of 3.400" and F215s. I worked up 59 gr and got just to 2900 fps and 7/8" at 100. Using Hunter with the 180s and same primers and brass (WIN), I got to 2810 with 58 gr and groups a hair smaller than the 165s. Primers were pretty flat with 59, and 60 showed some extractor marks, but they all shot really well.

It is important to note that I was getting fliers with most loads until I started running the expander through the cases in a separate step, after running them through my sizing die, per your suggestion somewhere, Mule Deer.

This brings up something I wanted to ask others about: I am getting std velocities with the varying bullet weights and several brands, but Bergers are noticeably slower over the Shooting Chrony in my gun. I used Berger's data as a starting point, and went past their listed max with a couple powders, but I couldn't get their velocities or even 'standard' velocities in my gun. I gave up trying to figure it out, as 100fps doesn't make a lot of difference, especially with Bergers, given their BC and the way they kill.

I have been loading the older 165gr Grand Slam over 57gr of IMR 4350 in my 30-06 but use has been limited to Deer hunting. I learned a lot from this discussion as I had thought I was using a premium bullet when in fact it is no more than a cup and core design. They have been a good bullet for me as it goes and very accurate but I avoid shoulder shots so no real test of bullet construction, have never recovered one from five deer. Reading that molten lead injection is not bonding was a bit of a surprise.

Alright, so, the pertinent difference between the Speer/Federal and Remington, vs the Berger, is a couple inches of penetration prior to expansion (or fragmentation, respectively)(?).

Woodswalker,

The old style dual core bullet is a premium bullet, not a basic cup and core. The old style GS bullets had a rear core that was harder and also had a "partition like" divider seperating a softer front core. They could only mushroom to the partition and penetrate deeply. The new GS bullets have a thicker jacket in the rear section but the core is one piece.

Keep using the old style, they're a great bullet, the new style not so much!

Hope this helps

Elk Country

not the same caliber, but a few years ago i shot a buffalo/bison with a 375H&H 270grain speer gran slam. Penetrated and took off the top half of his heart. He didn't go anywhere.

You mean 285gr GS, right? I really like those bullets too.

Did they change the package with the new style GS? How can you tell if it is the old style or the new style?