Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Lone Survivor

bang bang bang....= better than the chit hook going down ..going after them....

wow seem some folks on the fire aint been up to your ears!!! on a patrol..just sayin

I agree...hind site is a desert....

EVERY person I know who has actually been in the military can spell. You, obviously, have not.

Sure haven't. Is it a common practice on patrol to whack unarmed kids? Serious question.

Could you be confusing arrogance with confidence? I'd think that's at the top of any SEAL mission list of equipment.

I thought the book make clear what it takes to become a SEAL.

I got no arrogance out of this book and enjoyed it immensely. Chris Kyles book seemed much more arrogant.

During the first Gulf War, two different SF A-teams got compromised (their hide sites were discovered) by kids in Iraq. Neither one of them capped the kid. Both times a company of Iraqi troops showed up. About half of the guys on each team were sniper qualified and they held 'em off until they could get CAS to bomb the [bleep] out of them and Blackhawks could fly the over 200miles there to pick 'em up.

SEALS are some hard mofos but they are not noted for making sound tactical decisions. I don't know what training their officers recieve but I really have to wonder if it is as thorough as something like what Marine O's go through at Quantico.

Yes I certainly could be. I'm not sure how that is relevant to the story though, but then again I've done enough reading about what spec ops go through, that having to re read it and be told how bad ass they are, didn't do it for me OR apply to the story.

But I"ve said it before, I'm different, and that also probably applies.

I've been told I was arrogant too when in competitive shooting, and I'm not one to be arrogant at all, simply confident.

You make a good point and that crossed my mind as I read it, but couldn't get it out of my brain to accept it as such.

It may well apply very well to those not as read up on spec op teams as I am.

I found the author to come off on the arrogant side, glad to hear he's a decent guy in real life. The book was readable.

The Chris Kyle book was, quite simply, the worst piece of crap I've ever read. Exceedingly arrogant and misinformed.

Not noted for making sound tactical decisions?

As to your comparison between Marine officers and SEAL officers goes, I wouldn't want either in my backyard looking for me. The difference is you'll hear/see the marines coming forward, you'll never know the SEAL's were there. Totally different approach to the mission.

Of course hindsight is 20/20. It's easy for us to armchair quarterback the situation, but the reality is that a whole series of questionable decisions were made on that mountain which ultimately got a lot of good SEALs killed. The never give up attitude got that team into the situation and it also got Luttrell out. The book was riveting, hopefully the movie does the story and the men involved justice.

I have read both books and felt both were full of confidence, but nothing more. In Kyle's book, he does not give the number of kills he had. If he was into bragging, he would have gave it.

Bottom line is this. The books were written for entertainment and I am sure there were times the authors had issues with how the editors wanted it written. But beyond that, I am proud of them for the jobs they did for my country. I am grateful they are on my side and I feel bad that SEALs died unneccessary deaths. Both are very good books and I look forward to seeing this movie.... when in comes out on DVD as I never actually go to a movie theatre!

Yes.
http://www.specialoperations.com/Operations/Just_Cause/patilla.html

They executed a Soviet-style "raid" on that airfield and got their asses handed to 'em. The operators knew it was stupid but they were ordered to go. I would have told my O's to go FOAD.

http://www.specwarnet.net/miscinfo/patilla.htm

Perhaps the thought and why some think that they don't make sound tactical decisions is that these folks are driven and many just don't understand that. Driven beyond sacrifice. They understood that when they signed on that line it was for all the marbles, they fully realize the consequences of that and have moved beyond that. They understand that their teammates are of the same thinking and it goes unsaid but understood. They see the bigger picture, have weighed the options and made the choice. These men are true heros and like true heros expect nothing in return for what they have done but peace and quiet.

An underlying theme I noticed in most books of this ilk is how the Geneva convention and our present government determine what's black and what's white in gray areas. These operators are given a mission and told how to do it by someone with zero experience, micromanaged throughout the mission and then judged by the same people when things go awry. Against an enemy with no scruples, our men are held at a ridiculous standard that alone compromises their objective. Political correctness and liberal bleeding hearts put these highly trained operators in harms way. My thought, give the orders and get out of the way. Don't ask questions afterward. Maybe then the goat herder boy wouldn't have compromised the situation. My feeling is if they had executed him, the seals would have been crucified. Undoubtedly, they'd of been scrutinized if they'd neutralized him non lethally. Can't win for losing....

Dude

In my limited experience of three trips/tours/missions to Central America in the late 80's when we were dealing with Ortega's Sandinistas, I personally was involved in two incidents where we unexpectedly encountered non-combatants in sensitive areas, and one was a boy, there was never any question of harming them in any way. They were free to go. One incident, we believe our cover was blown as a result, the other it wasn't.

It was fairly well known in the military community that pre-GWOT, SEALs were not the guys you wanted for a mission that strayed very far from water and involved much time patrolling, or for more prolonged missions. Nothing wrong with that. A unit only has so much time to train, and the SEALs were specialists in other areas. Doesn't take away from their effectiveness, it's just that a guy has to keep in mind they aren't a bunch of freakin' James Bonds, capable of all tasks.

Since 9/11, much of that has changed. In large part due to a constant deployment cycle to the Mid-East where these guys get a lot of time on the ground.

Thanks for your service and personal story, sir. Sounds like you served with honor and distinction, and I appreciate the input.